well on standard internals tuned professional u can run about 10psi safely, ive got low compression pistons, rods, head etc, u must b jokin if they cant take the stress, i got detonation 4times one after the other on my standard internals and nothing happened apart from the spark plugs were roasted, if hondas cant take stress then nothing can
(((honda Vtec Vs Bmw)))
- Thread starter VtecTurbo
- Start date
If you want to spend that much money and time invested in the very rare instances where that happens on the streets, and someone really wants to race, then have a ball. Just pray that the guy who can afford an M3 in the first place hasn't decided to do his 'own' mods. [fake]
No one said vtec was 'isht' (at least I didn't). It's 'different' made to do different things than other manufacturers. Honda builds mean little engines that push around light cars, that can run forever, and can be fun to play with too. BMW builds engines that push little heavy, balanced cars around, give you much better 'feel' of the road than the majority of cars, and is a BLAST to drive around in with spirited driving (right out of the box), and offer a taste of luxury. 2 'different' things are offered, both are cool and suit different people.. (BTW I really like my bud's Honda Civic si, I've driven it many times, and love the stick being up 'in' the dash, it feels good there to me). So I guess I like your piece of isht car?![[:(]](/images/smilies/frown.png "Frown [:(]")
I even have my bud looking to get an older e36 with me and get a track car going in a year or so.. It's not for everyone, but it's hard to resist once you really feel it. (The BMW feel that is)
Do one mountain drive in your car, then do one in mine. If you aren't grinning from ear to ear and looking for your own BMW, that's fine but you sure will appreciate the points we're trying to make for you.
No one said vtec was 'isht' (at least I didn't). It's 'different' made to do different things than other manufacturers. Honda builds mean little engines that push around light cars, that can run forever, and can be fun to play with too. BMW builds engines that push little heavy, balanced cars around, give you much better 'feel' of the road than the majority of cars, and is a BLAST to drive around in with spirited driving (right out of the box), and offer a taste of luxury. 2 'different' things are offered, both are cool and suit different people.. (BTW I really like my bud's Honda Civic si, I've driven it many times, and love the stick being up 'in' the dash, it feels good there to me). So I guess I like your piece of isht car?
I even have my bud looking to get an older e36 with me and get a track car going in a year or so.. It's not for everyone, but it's hard to resist once you really feel it. (The BMW feel that is)Do one mountain drive in your car, then do one in mine. If you aren't grinning from ear to ear and looking for your own BMW, that's fine but you sure will appreciate the points we're trying to make for you.
If you roasted the plugs 4 times, you have engine damage. Now you may say that you have torn the engine down and didn't see any damage. My experience is that you will have at a minimum pitting of the heads and/or pistons. But regardless, the detonation has changed the temper of the head and pistons, with the head most likely to warp or crack at some point.
By the way, don't think that I am a Honda basher. To the contrary, I own two Honda motorcycles.
By the way, don't think that I am a Honda basher. To the contrary, I own two Honda motorcycles.
I think VtecTurbo is missing the point entirely.
I have a video on my computer of a 900BHP E36 M3 which, of course, is supercharged. The point i make is that just about any car can be modded to put out ridiculous amounts of power - ok maybe not a Fiat 500. Japanese cars are the perfect example.
BMWs, on the other hand, are designed right from the get-go to offer a good - sometimes exceptional - balance between power, refinement, handling etc that creates a unique driving experience. Now i know a lot of you guys have said you can't compare Honda's and BMWs and you're all right, but i think VtecTurbo is not understanding what we say here. No offense intended, of course.
Show me the hottest most outrageously modded Honda and then, for comparison, get an equivalently modded M5 and you will see what i mean. I know that people generally don't hot-up a car like an M5 because ultimately there is no point but you have to look at the starting base between two cars. An M5 will blow a standard Civic into next week and a modded Civic will endure the same outcome against a highly stressed M5. Ultimately, BMWs are manufactured and designed to a higher performace standard than are Honda's, end of story.
I have a video on my computer of a 900BHP E36 M3 which, of course, is supercharged. The point i make is that just about any car can be modded to put out ridiculous amounts of power - ok maybe not a Fiat 500. Japanese cars are the perfect example.
BMWs, on the other hand, are designed right from the get-go to offer a good - sometimes exceptional - balance between power, refinement, handling etc that creates a unique driving experience. Now i know a lot of you guys have said you can't compare Honda's and BMWs and you're all right, but i think VtecTurbo is not understanding what we say here. No offense intended, of course.
Show me the hottest most outrageously modded Honda and then, for comparison, get an equivalently modded M5 and you will see what i mean. I know that people generally don't hot-up a car like an M5 because ultimately there is no point but you have to look at the starting base between two cars. An M5 will blow a standard Civic into next week and a modded Civic will endure the same outcome against a highly stressed M5. Ultimately, BMWs are manufactured and designed to a higher performace standard than are Honda's, end of story.
wot u talking about??? i meant more like compare a similarly matched honda vtec and bmw, for example nsx type r with an m3 evo, if you are comparing a 1.6 civic vtec with an m5 then u are crazy!!! its like comparing an honda nsx type r with a bmw 316i, theres no competition, if you want to end the thread because you think im talking rubbish and you right about comparing a 1.6 civic with an m5 then kool but the only person u are fooling is yourself, anyways cut the story short
END OF THREAD.
END OF THREAD.
Flame the riced out FWD econoboxes all you want, but leave the NSX out of it. Save for the E46 M3 and the M coupe, there isn't a stock BMW made that can hang at the track with a stock NSX (not the drag strip, in which case, throw the E39 M5 and the M Roadster on there, and yes, I am aware of the M1 and 850csi, and no, the McLaren F1, despite its S70/2 engine, is not a BMW).
The current NSX-R and the M3 CSL both ran a 7m56s lap at the Ring. In the days I have spent at Road America and Blackhawk at BMW CCA HPDEs, my NSX has more than held its own against E46 M3s, 996s, 03 SC Cobras, etc. I know many people who own NSXs and E46 and/or E36 M3s and they do not disagree.
As for the M3 owner on this board who said the NSX was a street car, but the M3 was a GT car. Huh?????? I think I may know what you were trying to get at, but your point is without merit and your understanding of NSX racing involvement likely incorrect. Beyond PD Cunningham's success in Speedvision GT in the late 90s, a good showing at Le Mans in 1994 and 1995(not as sure about 95) and the JGTC, NSXs are tracked with much success at varying levels of racing.
I know the ricer thing is a touchy subject here, and everybody loves to bash Hondas, but the unintelligent dribble that is being posted here is worse than usual.
Yes, VtecTurbo is not the most articulate guy, and his posts can inflame some of the BMW faithful, but if you lose all sense of rationality and perspective you just end up looking foolish.
It is fine to love BMWs, but try not to be so close-minded about other cars that few of you know anything about. Hell, I know more about BMWs than 95% of the people on this board, and I don't even own one at the moment. And if some of you new guys want to put that to the test, I am all ears, but you may want to do a search on some of the knowledge I have dropped on this board in the past.
And no, that doesn't mean I am omnipotent, just an avid enthusiast who has followed the blau mit weiss since before most of you were born, and I am not that old.
[bmwkick] [thumbd]
The current NSX-R and the M3 CSL both ran a 7m56s lap at the Ring. In the days I have spent at Road America and Blackhawk at BMW CCA HPDEs, my NSX has more than held its own against E46 M3s, 996s, 03 SC Cobras, etc. I know many people who own NSXs and E46 and/or E36 M3s and they do not disagree.
As for the M3 owner on this board who said the NSX was a street car, but the M3 was a GT car. Huh?????? I think I may know what you were trying to get at, but your point is without merit and your understanding of NSX racing involvement likely incorrect. Beyond PD Cunningham's success in Speedvision GT in the late 90s, a good showing at Le Mans in 1994 and 1995(not as sure about 95) and the JGTC, NSXs are tracked with much success at varying levels of racing.
I know the ricer thing is a touchy subject here, and everybody loves to bash Hondas, but the unintelligent dribble that is being posted here is worse than usual.
Yes, VtecTurbo is not the most articulate guy, and his posts can inflame some of the BMW faithful, but if you lose all sense of rationality and perspective you just end up looking foolish.
It is fine to love BMWs, but try not to be so close-minded about other cars that few of you know anything about. Hell, I know more about BMWs than 95% of the people on this board, and I don't even own one at the moment. And if some of you new guys want to put that to the test, I am all ears, but you may want to do a search on some of the knowledge I have dropped on this board in the past.
And no, that doesn't mean I am omnipotent, just an avid enthusiast who has followed the blau mit weiss since before most of you were born, and I am not that old.
[bmwkick] [thumbd]
Although Honda is it's own in Japan, Here Honda is mostly commuters, save the S2000, then we have ACURA... which should be distinguished here. Acuras are nice, but (save the NSX) they're all FWD.... FWD really can't compete on a track with a simmilarly weighted and powered RWD car. In the USA Honda and Acura are different makes, I tihnk some people here may be confusing the two... or maybe it's just me
They are all Hondas. My NSX has more Honda logos than Acura logos, and is badged Honda everywhere but North America.
Save for a few unique US-market only cars, like the current Accord (the rest of the world drives the Acura TSX badged as an Accord) and the SUVs/Minivans, they are the same.
Oh, and I forgot to mention the earlier posts about the new Acura 3.0 engine are probably mistaken. I assume you mean the 270 hp. 3.2 in the 3rd gen. TL and the JDM Inspire (IIRC).
Oh, and having come from the ALMS weekend at Road America, you may want to look up who won the Speed Touring race and what they were driving against a field of RWD and FWD cars.
Save for a few unique US-market only cars, like the current Accord (the rest of the world drives the Acura TSX badged as an Accord) and the SUVs/Minivans, they are the same.
Oh, and I forgot to mention the earlier posts about the new Acura 3.0 engine are probably mistaken. I assume you mean the 270 hp. 3.2 in the 3rd gen. TL and the JDM Inspire (IIRC).
Oh, and having come from the ALMS weekend at Road America, you may want to look up who won the Speed Touring race and what they were driving against a field of RWD and FWD cars.
Like many topics, it has gotten out of hand.
In answer to the original question, IMHO, Honda makes better 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 liter engines than BMW. Find the VTEC v. VANOS thread I posted in, with a quote from Jeremy Walton in Roundel stating just that.
Honda used to make a better 3.2 liter motor, i.e. the C32A in the NA2 NSX, but since BMW came out with the S54, they have made a motor that is at least arguably superior than the C32A, at least in terms of specific output, although not so in terms of reliability.
Honda has not kept the NSX current, which is sad. If you bring the C32A to the level of tune that the S54 comes in stock trim, you have about 350 hp. at the crank (by which I mean more aggressive cams, basic bolt-ons, and, the key for the S54, an individual throttle body system). The NSX-R engines are probably making about 310 hp. at the crank, but that is still less specific output than the S54.
Still, you know which one I choose to drive, and if you think I can't have an E46 M3 you are mistaken. Hell, I could get rid of both my Acuras for a 996 C4S if I wanted to . . .
In answer to the original question, IMHO, Honda makes better 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 liter engines than BMW. Find the VTEC v. VANOS thread I posted in, with a quote from Jeremy Walton in Roundel stating just that.
Honda used to make a better 3.2 liter motor, i.e. the C32A in the NA2 NSX, but since BMW came out with the S54, they have made a motor that is at least arguably superior than the C32A, at least in terms of specific output, although not so in terms of reliability.
Honda has not kept the NSX current, which is sad. If you bring the C32A to the level of tune that the S54 comes in stock trim, you have about 350 hp. at the crank (by which I mean more aggressive cams, basic bolt-ons, and, the key for the S54, an individual throttle body system). The NSX-R engines are probably making about 310 hp. at the crank, but that is still less specific output than the S54.
Still, you know which one I choose to drive, and if you think I can't have an E46 M3 you are mistaken. Hell, I could get rid of both my Acuras for a 996 C4S if I wanted to . . .