Hey ppl! Debate - Honda Engines vs BMW Engines
- Thread starter ///M-unit
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i am really happy to see that this thread did not turn into a little flame war by now. usually this question is the kind that creates some heat as the engines are not really comparable on the one hand and on th other hand some enthusiasts tend to react quite aggressive when it comes to this question.
in my opinion this shows how mature this board really is and that the members really know how to discuss and controll their temper. good job everyone![[thumb]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_thumb.gif "Thumbs Up [thumb]")
back to the topic, i think that honda is really a top-notch engine builder, in the market segment they want to do business of course. small displacement high reving power plants, go honda. the more torqy and silent engine? go with a bmw.
i like to work with pictures to compare things. the honda is an athlete, a sprinter, that runs real quick. the bimmer´s I6 is more like a suit that fits the car. nice, understatement, not that eye catching but the perfect accesoire to make the car a good one. comparing both would be like comparing george clooney and maurice greene.
it´s up to each on his own to choose what he desires. there is not really a winner in this comparison. to find a winner you need to compare apples and apples.
in my opinion this shows how mature this board really is and that the members really know how to discuss and controll their temper. good job everyone
back to the topic, i think that honda is really a top-notch engine builder, in the market segment they want to do business of course. small displacement high reving power plants, go honda. the more torqy and silent engine? go with a bmw.
i like to work with pictures to compare things. the honda is an athlete, a sprinter, that runs real quick. the bimmer´s I6 is more like a suit that fits the car. nice, understatement, not that eye catching but the perfect accesoire to make the car a good one. comparing both would be like comparing george clooney and maurice greene.
it´s up to each on his own to choose what he desires. there is not really a winner in this comparison. to find a winner you need to compare apples and apples.
you can't compare honda 4 bangers with the i6. better comparison would be btw the 270 hp TL and the i6.
at one point iirc, Honda's V6 on the NSX, Porsche's boxer engine, and M's i6s were one of the most amazing 6 cyls on the market. no coincidence imo.
197 on the type R vs 115? am i missing something?
at one point iirc, Honda's V6 on the NSX, Porsche's boxer engine, and M's i6s were one of the most amazing 6 cyls on the market. no coincidence imo.
197 on the type R vs 115? am i missing something?
You are confused.
There is no V6 in the world that has 16 valves (the closest would be 18 valves, 3 per cylinder, as in MB V6s of recent vintage). A BMW I6 has 4 valves per cylinder or 24 valves total. A Honda V6 has 4 valves per cylinder or 24 valves total.
You are thinking of a Honda 4 cylinder, which has 4 valves per cylinder and 16 valves, just like a BMW 4 cylinder.
There is no V6 in the world that has 16 valves (the closest would be 18 valves, 3 per cylinder, as in MB V6s of recent vintage). A BMW I6 has 4 valves per cylinder or 24 valves total. A Honda V6 has 4 valves per cylinder or 24 valves total.
You are thinking of a Honda 4 cylinder, which has 4 valves per cylinder and 16 valves, just like a BMW 4 cylinder.
I'm not saying I like Toyota's so just to point that out as well
![[rofl]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_rofl.gif "ROFL [rofl]"){kind=icon}
![[cheers]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_cheers.gif "Cheers [cheers]"){kind=icon}
BMW is really upping its quality and so are all the German companies, thats how I've heard it and I don't doubt it, I mean I look to Germans for finess and great build quality and technologies that others look up too. It would be nice if they stick with their tradition of making great things but not let it straggle and go bad like the Hindenburg.
Speaking of which no one answered my BMW and Peugeot diesel question. Did they or not join forces [???1]
PhatBimmer said:
I'm not saying I like Toyota's so just to point that out as well
BMW is really upping its quality and so are all the German companies, thats how I've heard it and I don't doubt it, I mean I look to Germans for finess and great build quality and technologies that others look up too. It would be nice if they stick with their tradition of making great things but not let it straggle and go bad like the Hindenburg.
Speaking of which no one answered my BMW and Peugeot diesel question. Did they or not join forces [???1]
BMW is really upping its quality and so are all the German companies, thats how I've heard it and I don't doubt it, I mean I look to Germans for finess and great build quality and technologies that others look up too. It would be nice if they stick with their tradition of making great things but not let it straggle and go bad like the Hindenburg.
Speaking of which no one answered my BMW and Peugeot diesel question. Did they or not join forces [???1]
I was using the comparison for highway mileage and power to weight ratio. They build 2500lbs cars that are the same size as the 3 series so I figured it's a fair comparison to emphasize the I6's fuel economy. The 270hp 3.2 engine doesn't get as good fuel economy as the 225hp 3.0 I6, and it makes for a dull comparison. I even said that you cant compare apples to oranges, to point out that this whole thread doesn't really make sense.
Nobody is questioning Honda's ability to build remarkable engines.
As for your last comment, yes HP IS NOT EVERYTHING. The civic R is not in the same class as the 1 series. The civic R is merely a Honda civic, euro version with supercharged 197hp engine in it for the budget. I don't think consumers purchase the 120i with being a race car driver in mind, but I'm sure (as the letter R indicates) the civic R's customers purchase that car with ricer-racing in mind...
Nobody is questioning Honda's ability to build remarkable engines.
As for your last comment, yes HP IS NOT EVERYTHING. The civic R is not in the same class as the 1 series. The civic R is merely a Honda civic, euro version with supercharged 197hp engine in it for the budget. I don't think consumers purchase the 120i with being a race car driver in mind, but I'm sure (as the letter R indicates) the civic R's customers purchase that car with ricer-racing in mind...
Plus, there is also that luxury bit that you're paying for with a BMW, which you don't pay for in a Civic.
Yeah, my E34 has 210k and is showing no signs of stopping. Pretty incredible, especially compared to American cars. [8)]
epj3 said:
And plus you see a lot more super high mileage honda's and bmw's that are still in acceptable condition than a lot of other cars. I mean - when I tell friends who know cars that my e34 has a little over 129k miles and they say "oh wow that's low"... what's it tell ya
I am sure to get slammed for this but I don’t entirely see the apples to oranges differences between the two. What makes this comparison so much an apples to oranges comparison?
I guess one thing for me is that I DON’T consider my car in a high-perfomrmance class, but rather, in a small luxury class that could reasonably include products made by Honda. I would however consider the more powerful M3 in a performance class and at this point I may draw an apples to oranges line.
So I guess I am having a difficult time separating the engines into such unique classes overall when speaking of the most popular and standard products of BMW versus similar Honda products, or even Lexus, Infinity, and others for that matter.
I guess one thing for me is that I DON’T consider my car in a high-perfomrmance class, but rather, in a small luxury class that could reasonably include products made by Honda. I would however consider the more powerful M3 in a performance class and at this point I may draw an apples to oranges line.
So I guess I am having a difficult time separating the engines into such unique classes overall when speaking of the most popular and standard products of BMW versus similar Honda products, or even Lexus, Infinity, and others for that matter.
Well the reason most people consider bmw's motors performance engines is becuase they have a relatively flat torque curve, they are built within a very close specification (unlike MANY other brands), and mostly becuase of BMW's history.
When they make the statement who is the top 3 - they go by innovations, overall reliability, power, etc. That's why even though GM and ford make decent and reliable engines (....sometimes, sorry, still pissed about the van![[B)]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_blackeye.gif "Black Eye [B)]")
), they aren't very innovative as compared to honda, bmw, etc.
When they make the statement who is the top 3 - they go by innovations, overall reliability, power, etc. That's why even though GM and ford make decent and reliable engines (....sometimes, sorry, still pissed about the van
), they aren't very innovative as compared to honda, bmw, etc.We've owned a Honda and Volvo that made it into the 300K mile + range and they're still going. No smoke, no tear down, nothing other than timing belt, gaskets and oil/filter changes. Unfortunately, our BMW dashboard died before getting into the 150K + miles range. Our 540i is starting to have some problems and we may have to unload her soon - a little over 100K miles. Our Lexus 3.0 V-6 has been a great motor and has over 210K with no signs of quitting - no gasket changes yet either.
Who makes the best engine? In my opinion, I think there are many companies that make wonderful engines, but unfortunately their cars start falling apart before their longevity is fully tested.
Who makes the best engine? In my opinion, I think there are many companies that make wonderful engines, but unfortunately their cars start falling apart before their longevity is fully tested.
Steve, first part of my response wasn't directed at you. rather it was for Matthew just above my post. the comment under the quote was for you. sorry about that misunderstanding.
hp may not be everything, but it's quite a statement when you say that in the face of 197 vs 115. (btw, i don't think the type R is super charged to make 197 or 200 hp. but rather a N.A engine) but hey, if you are perfectly happy with a bmw with 115 horses over a "ricer" with 197. who am i to say you are right or wrong?
i totally agree with the fact that Honda makes the best 4 cyl on the planet, well best N.A 4 cyl on the planet. i mean getting 240 horses out of the 2.0 liter on the older s2k was just amazing!! 2 things i hate about the s2k tho are the: getting to teh torque band, and having to beat the engine like you hate it to make it really work for you. but is one amazing piece of engine none the less.
hp may not be everything, but it's quite a statement when you say that in the face of 197 vs 115. (btw, i don't think the type R is super charged to make 197 or 200 hp. but rather a N.A engine) but hey, if you are perfectly happy with a bmw with 115 horses over a "ricer" with 197. who am i to say you are right or wrong?
i totally agree with the fact that Honda makes the best 4 cyl on the planet, well best N.A 4 cyl on the planet. i mean getting 240 horses out of the 2.0 liter on the older s2k was just amazing!! 2 things i hate about the s2k tho are the: getting to teh torque band, and having to beat the engine like you hate it to make it really work for you. but is one amazing piece of engine none the less.
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But that's the beatiful thing about honda and bmw motor's. You CAN beat the shit out of 'em and they'll just keep running. I don't know about the new bmw motors, but the engines in both my e30 and my e34 i take past redline more than most people could imagine and both cars run near perfect. They take what you can give them. Their job is to power that car, and turn the crank really fast, so that's what I'm going to expect out of it ![[hihi]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_hihi.gif "Hi Hi [hihi]")