The 5-series has stumbled in a way uncharacteristic for a new BMW....
- Thread starter Tom
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Hornet, I agree 100% with you. I'm not saying BMWs don't drive well or handle well anymore. What I meant by my complete package remark was that they should be quality, attractive (interior & exterior), well-built, luxurious, safe, AND drive well. So in addition to handlling as well, or almost as well, as some of the cars I mentioned, the 3er is also able to, as you say, carry around people safely, comfortably, and in luxury. I don't think that's a radical statement??? So, if I feel one area is lacking, like say interior quality or ergonomics, then yeah, I'd say then BMWs need to go back to improve interior design and evolutionary (instead of revolutionary) exterior changes the way they used to do before stuff like this even became an issue.
BTW, clearly I'm not the only person who feels this way. Like Deutsch said, most of the automotive-minded public have commented on some sort of decline (be it style, reliabilty, over-technological, etc.).
When the E46 (or prev. gen 5er) was introduced, people and car journalists weren't bitching about the radical design change, the odd interior design, poor electronics (any 2002 7er owners out there??) etc. Stuff like just didn't come up. But now BMW tried to revolutionize their cars too quickly and I think then went a little too far....Sales figs seems to point that way too.
M Speed: What do you have to add to the conversation? So much for your 2 cents. Now you post about my "pointless drivel". I express my OPINIONS as completely and accurately as I can. I see you still haven't learned to comprehend large passages of text since our last "meeting." Still burned from the thrashing I gave you?? Bitterness dies hard, I see.![[}:)]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_evil.gif "Evil [}:)]")
![[bigcry]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_bigcry.gif "Big Cry [bigcry]")
BTW, clearly I'm not the only person who feels this way. Like Deutsch said, most of the automotive-minded public have commented on some sort of decline (be it style, reliabilty, over-technological, etc.).
When the E46 (or prev. gen 5er) was introduced, people and car journalists weren't bitching about the radical design change, the odd interior design, poor electronics (any 2002 7er owners out there??) etc. Stuff like just didn't come up. But now BMW tried to revolutionize their cars too quickly and I think then went a little too far....Sales figs seems to point that way too.
M Speed: What do you have to add to the conversation? So much for your 2 cents. Now you post about my "pointless drivel". I express my OPINIONS as completely and accurately as I can. I see you still haven't learned to comprehend large passages of text since our last "meeting." Still burned from the thrashing I gave you?? Bitterness dies hard, I see.
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Wallie05, you really are an ass. Apparently, your intelligence in english far outweighs your intelligence in automobiles. You have already made yourself look foolish by your abiguous references to alternate class automobiles. Instead of arguing the facts, which I have clearly explained in the above posts, you continue to make reference to nonsensical and unintelligible OPINIONS.
My response was left open to your own interpretation, which apparently has struck a nerve. Maybe you need to stick to your line of work to prove your intelligence: Fixed-income securities, emerging market currencies, and options.
My response was left open to your own interpretation, which apparently has struck a nerve. Maybe you need to stick to your line of work to prove your intelligence: Fixed-income securities, emerging market currencies, and options.
Abdoman, you really are a dumbf*ck. Wow, you're all over the place with this one. Is this a sign of BMW-envy??
Again, my point was that BMWs COMBINE features from a VARIETY of classes that serve to make it a complete package. Read: the handling of a sports car (S2000, 350Z); the luxurious of a luxury car (pick some); and the practicality, if you choose, of a 4 door sedan (WRX and many others). Clear enough?? [read]
Struck a nerve? Oooh, you called my a dummy. That hurts coming from you.![[rolleyes]](/images/smilies/rolleyes.png "Roll Eyes (Sarcastic) [rolleyes]")
. So let me get this straight. The RX-8 is a two-door (actually it's 4--but you're the auto expert) coupe and the BMW 5er is made to haul a" larger family." Wow, eureka!! Thanks for clearing that up. Great job with the "class-allocation," too.
![[offtopic]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_offtopic.gif "Off Topic [offtopic]")
What's that about fixed-income and Eurodollars? You're not looking to buy Swiss Francs are you?? No Oklahoma residents need apply....
Maybe you should stick with the weights and leave the discourse to the enlightened masses, and engineer whatever worthless contraption you engineer.![[B)]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_blackeye.gif "Black Eye [B)]")
![[poke]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_poke.gif "Poke [poke]")
Again, my point was that BMWs COMBINE features from a VARIETY of classes that serve to make it a complete package. Read: the handling of a sports car (S2000, 350Z); the luxurious of a luxury car (pick some); and the practicality, if you choose, of a 4 door sedan (WRX and many others). Clear enough?? [read]
Struck a nerve? Oooh, you called my a dummy. That hurts coming from you.
. So let me get this straight. The RX-8 is a two-door (actually it's 4--but you're the auto expert) coupe and the BMW 5er is made to haul a" larger family." Wow, eureka!! Thanks for clearing that up. Great job with the "class-allocation," too. What's that about fixed-income and Eurodollars? You're not looking to buy Swiss Francs are you?? No Oklahoma residents need apply....
Maybe you should stick with the weights and leave the discourse to the enlightened masses, and engineer whatever worthless contraption you engineer.
First, I have owned more BMWs than you could even dream of, second I guarantee that I more traveled than your skinny, pu$$y ass. I am done responding to your uninformed, uninitiated, unintellectual, unknowledgeable, unlearned, unlettered, unmindful, unread, unschooled, unsuspecting, untaught, untrained, unwitting, witless responses.
Talk about a dumbf*ck! "engineer whatever worthless contraption you engineer." Did that take you all night?
//M Speed was right, this was worthless - trading insults with a dumbass that can only prove a point by throwing insults.
LOL
You made my night.
Talk about a dumbf*ck! "engineer whatever worthless contraption you engineer." Did that take you all night?
//M Speed was right, this was worthless - trading insults with a dumbass that can only prove a point by throwing insults.
LOL
You made my night.
Ah, yes, you are are the civlized, well-heeled, well-traveled man from that cosmopolitan bastion known as Edmond, OK. I hear they have direct flights to the Maldives now?
Take me all night? Can you count the time between posts and responses? Take me all night? What a piss-poor comeback.![[scream]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_scream.gif "Scream [scream]")
"Again, my point was that BMWs COMBINE features from a VARIETY of classes that serve to make it a complete package. Read: the handling of a sports car (S2000, 350Z); the luxurious of a luxury car (pick some); and the practicality, if you choose, of a 4 door sedan (WRX and many others). Clear enough??"
Can you read, tubs?? The above doesn't read like an insult to me. Oh I bet I made you're night. I bet you're just aching to read my enraged response to your poly-syllabic, thesaurus (or steroid??)-induced rant. Then again, I thought I was the one that was supposed to be "real good at anglish." Now, that's an insult...![[mad]](/images/smilies/mad.png "Mad [mad]")
![[:D]](/images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin [:D]")
Hey numbn*ts, you started this. What can I say: You got me. I'm "unlettered."![[:I]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_blush.gif "Blush [:I]")
By the way, do you where I could score some good coke?
Take me all night? Can you count the time between posts and responses? Take me all night? What a piss-poor comeback.
"Again, my point was that BMWs COMBINE features from a VARIETY of classes that serve to make it a complete package. Read: the handling of a sports car (S2000, 350Z); the luxurious of a luxury car (pick some); and the practicality, if you choose, of a 4 door sedan (WRX and many others). Clear enough??"
Can you read, tubs?? The above doesn't read like an insult to me. Oh I bet I made you're night. I bet you're just aching to read my enraged response to your poly-syllabic, thesaurus (or steroid??)-induced rant. Then again, I thought I was the one that was supposed to be "real good at anglish." Now, that's an insult...
Hey numbn*ts, you started this. What can I say: You got me. I'm "unlettered."
By the way, do you where I could score some good coke?
That's the biggest insult I've seen yet. That one really does hurt. I'm dissappointed. And to think that I argreed when aNoodle said your car looked sweet.
Just because I have issues with the E60s design doesn't mean I have a distain for BMWs. That's just plain deceptive and false. But I will admit, though I don't feel this is a detraction, that I also realize BMWs aren't always perfect; and I won't adore all their products blindly. I hold them to a higher standard, and I will be demanding. But I think other company's and car's have merits too. Just because I said an RX-8 is a good-handling car doesnt make me "ricer-lover." Furthermore, I've gone over and over how BMWs used to (and for the most part, STILL DO) embody the complete package. How many times and how many different ways can I say luxurious, safe, and well-driving in one thread??
I love my E46 and I never harped on any aspect of those cars. I think it is damn near perfect. That's just low man....
Just because I have issues with the E60s design doesn't mean I have a distain for BMWs. That's just plain deceptive and false. But I will admit, though I don't feel this is a detraction, that I also realize BMWs aren't always perfect; and I won't adore all their products blindly. I hold them to a higher standard, and I will be demanding. But I think other company's and car's have merits too. Just because I said an RX-8 is a good-handling car doesnt make me "ricer-lover." Furthermore, I've gone over and over how BMWs used to (and for the most part, STILL DO) embody the complete package. How many times and how many different ways can I say luxurious, safe, and well-driving in one thread??
I love my E46 and I never harped on any aspect of those cars. I think it is damn near perfect. That's just low man....
If I have you wrong ...then I apologize.....But everyone of your threads and post that I have read thus far (not to say i have read them all) is just negetivity towards BMW. This is a Bimmer LOVERS site and sometimes love makes you blind...true. I just wanted to see a little support for BMW instead of this constant BMW better do this, or BMW better do that, in order to stay above MB, Audi and Asian cars. No insult was meant by my post. I was simply stating that if your love and affection for other cars is higher than that of BMW....then you should hang with those car lovers. I refuse to trade blows or participate in a internet arguement...it is just plain STUPID.
Maybe we need a voice of reason in all of this....
Remember everyone has their own opinion and throwing mud at each other is not very "adult-like". It takes two to argue(and please dont say it wasnt arguement). Wallie argued his points very well and some of you disagreed! Whooptie effin doo! You CAN disagree but to say that a person HATES Bimmers is just uninformed and judgemental.
Everyone knows bimmers have electrical problems, everyone knows changing out the head unit and speaker system is a pain, everyone knows the doors dont shut with that satisfying clunk anymore.....does this make ME a bimmer hater? Shit I am in a German run BMW Tuning Club.......and I like Audis, Porsches, Aston Martins, Nissans, should i continue?
Lets quit with the insults....be they direct or indirect(Tool Fan...LOL...) and use this board like grown professionals....or students or whatever. I have seen 16year olds on this board act more mature than some of you on here. And if the shoe fits then wear it. And please dont send any of that drama my way....i have better things to do like earning the money for my future M3!!!!
Remember everyone has their own opinion and throwing mud at each other is not very "adult-like". It takes two to argue(and please dont say it wasnt arguement). Wallie argued his points very well and some of you disagreed! Whooptie effin doo! You CAN disagree but to say that a person HATES Bimmers is just uninformed and judgemental.
Everyone knows bimmers have electrical problems, everyone knows changing out the head unit and speaker system is a pain, everyone knows the doors dont shut with that satisfying clunk anymore.....does this make ME a bimmer hater? Shit I am in a German run BMW Tuning Club.......and I like Audis, Porsches, Aston Martins, Nissans, should i continue?
Lets quit with the insults....be they direct or indirect(Tool Fan...LOL...) and use this board like grown professionals....or students or whatever. I have seen 16year olds on this board act more mature than some of you on here. And if the shoe fits then wear it. And please dont send any of that drama my way....i have better things to do like earning the money for my future M3!!!!
Adrean, thanks for injecting this thread with a voice of reason--it was deparately needed, and you are absolutely right. My apologies for contributing to the recent sluggfest. It was just plain stupid.
Toolfan. I think you have to agree with what Adrean and I are saying. Just because someone dislikes a particular BMW model or critizes its design or whatever doesn't mean that person has a distain for BMWs. I've praised BMWs over and over, in this thread and others. Let me state this once and for all so it won't have to come up again. I think BMW AG is a great company and they build a fabulous product. They are, hands down, my favorite cars/company. They've built great cars in the past and now, and I think they will continue to do so in the future. But that doesn't preclude me from liking Mercedes', Audis, and yeah, even Lexuses and Toyotas.
Having said that, I think they're going through a bit of a "rough patch" right now. One thing you can't deny is that the recent models have been controversial to say the least; and most of the publicity the public has been exposed to has been negative--especially regarding styling and quality issues (electronic and others). This thread was about stumbling 5 series sales. Myself and other members just posted our reasons on why we thought the sales were disappointing, specifically in the US. That's all.
Finally, as far as my "constant negative" BMW comments, I think what you're referring to includes our conversation about the new M5 (which I think is fantastic, btw) having a low torque number and a new RS6 not being available for comparison. Yes, I have been critical of the new BMWs (btw, I do love the new 7ers and I hate the X3), but that's just because I've come to expect a lot from BMW, not because I dislike them. Like I said, I won't just accept anything that rolls out from the BMW factory and call if fanatastic and blashpemy if someone disagrees. Finally, other than remarking that some Japenese cars are capable handlers, I've never posted anything that praises Japanese cars so highly that I might be labeled a "ricer-lover." If anything, my infatuation with BMWs should be clear to the point that even my "negative" comments are aimed at pointing out points of improvement, as well as points of commendation.
No hard feelings.![[cheers]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_cheers.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
Toolfan. I think you have to agree with what Adrean and I are saying. Just because someone dislikes a particular BMW model or critizes its design or whatever doesn't mean that person has a distain for BMWs. I've praised BMWs over and over, in this thread and others. Let me state this once and for all so it won't have to come up again. I think BMW AG is a great company and they build a fabulous product. They are, hands down, my favorite cars/company. They've built great cars in the past and now, and I think they will continue to do so in the future. But that doesn't preclude me from liking Mercedes', Audis, and yeah, even Lexuses and Toyotas.
Having said that, I think they're going through a bit of a "rough patch" right now. One thing you can't deny is that the recent models have been controversial to say the least; and most of the publicity the public has been exposed to has been negative--especially regarding styling and quality issues (electronic and others). This thread was about stumbling 5 series sales. Myself and other members just posted our reasons on why we thought the sales were disappointing, specifically in the US. That's all.
Finally, as far as my "constant negative" BMW comments, I think what you're referring to includes our conversation about the new M5 (which I think is fantastic, btw) having a low torque number and a new RS6 not being available for comparison. Yes, I have been critical of the new BMWs (btw, I do love the new 7ers and I hate the X3), but that's just because I've come to expect a lot from BMW, not because I dislike them. Like I said, I won't just accept anything that rolls out from the BMW factory and call if fanatastic and blashpemy if someone disagrees. Finally, other than remarking that some Japenese cars are capable handlers, I've never posted anything that praises Japanese cars so highly that I might be labeled a "ricer-lover." If anything, my infatuation with BMWs should be clear to the point that even my "negative" comments are aimed at pointing out points of improvement, as well as points of commendation.
No hard feelings.
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Wallie05 said:
Having said that, I think they're going through a bit of a "rough patch" right now. One thing you can't deny is that the recent models have been controversial to say the least; and most of the publicity the public has been exposed to has been negative--especially regarding styling and quality issues (electronic and others). This thread was about stumbling 5 series sales. Myself and other members just posted our reasons on why we thought the sales were disappointing, specifically in the US. That's all.
Wallie05 said:
LOL, Chesty. Did the guy tell you to get off the crackpipe? ![[hihi]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_hihi.gif "Hi Hi [hihi]")
![[;)]](/images/smilies/wink.png "Wink [;)]")