The 5-series has stumbled in a way uncharacteristic for a new BMW....

[Tom]

Bummer....

==============================
2004 BMW 5-series

October 14, 2004

Description: Luxury midsize rear-wheel-drive sport sedan.

Price range: MSRPs run from $39,800 for straight-six 525i model to $58,300 for V8-powered 545i. All prices exclude destination charges.

Reality check: The best-selling model, the 530i, has a sticker price of $45,595 and actually sold for $44,055 in September, according to Edmunds.com. No incentives or rebates are available.


The numbers: BMW sold 32,617 5-series cars through the first three quarters of 2004, down from 35,867 for the same period last year. That's well below what the automaker would have hoped for with the technically sophisticated all-new model that went on sale about a year ago.


Bottom line: The 5-series has stumbled in a way uncharacteristic for a new BMW. Several factors might have contributed to its slow sales, including the new model's radical styling, its complicated iDrive control system and a parts problem that stalled shipments from the factory in Germany this summer.


The 5-series is far short of the kind of roaring success BMW expected when it replaced the car that was widely considered the best sport sedan in the world. However, it's too early to call the car a failure. BMW has yet to introduce the new 5-series station wagon, and the 500-horsepower V10-powered M5 super sedan is certain to draw fresh attention when it debuts next year.

Text Source

 

[Bryan330i]

I think we all had to see this one coming.

BMW problems, IMO.

Design changes too radical, should have been more conservative updating.

Rationing HP like the engine cores are solid platinum. This is probably used to entice people to more expensive cars but with the competition this will not work. We would all be surprised what just $1,000.00 per vehicle more in direct BMW expense would do for performance during production.

Needs task force/quality group to examine quality issues.

I don't think the wagon and M5 can carry them in this line.

They should try a base power of 225 HP to say 265 HP and clean the style just a bit.

 

[Chesty Bonds]

It's depressing to read that but, at the same time, it's also unsurprising. I definitely believe the i-Drive thing is a big mistake. It's just too complex and when i think of what could go wrong with it down the line it makes me shudder. I think this will have a huge impact on BMW's well-known reliability and build-quality.

The styling? You either like it or you dont and i think therein lies the problem. It's just too divisive and i do believe that it's entirely possible to create a style that appeals to a vast majority. Perhaps these figures will help BMW return to their more traditional roots.

 

[theBMWenthusiast]

It's depressing to read that but, at the same time, it's also unsurprising. I definitely believe the i-Drive thing is a big mistake. It's just too complex and when i think of what could go wrong with it down the line it makes me shudder. I think this will have a huge impact on BMW's well-known reliability and build-quality.

ya i too think I-drive is having a big affect on sales....they need a more user friendly system...

 

[Wallie05]

Yeah, I agree with the article. Several factors went into this new 5ers dismal sales. While my attitude towards the exterior stylining is lukewarm at best, I must say my greatest disappointment came from the interior. I sat in the new 5er several times, including a 545i at a dealer when I got my sunroof (it was just the cover, actually) fixed and I really thought it felt "cheap." I mean, I think that the quality of the plastics didn't look or feel as good as those in my 323i. You couldn't see the texture in the dash the same way you can see it mine.

Also, one of my peeves was that open storage compartment at the bottom of the console--it reminded me of my mom's old Camry. Now I think they replaced that with a smooth surface, but it still looks crappy because its too plain--there's no buttons or anything there. Also, I dislike BMWs new "incorporate-the-passenger monodash," the one that connects the passenger and driver--there's really no angle at the driver or driver-centrism as in the old models. I know the new 7s are the same way, and I think it looks to Lincoln TownCar-ish.

I think Audi got it right with the new A6. It's not too radical, a nice keep-it-in-the-family redesign from their previous one, and the interior is absolutely gorgeous--not to mention, it's definitely a driver's cockpit.

Hopefully BMW gets their act togethor (styling and quality-wise), otherwise, I'm going to be looking across the street. And I don't mean just switching from one German brand to another. I think they're going to (they already are) face really stiff competition from the Japanese automakers in the coming years. The Japs build great quality cars and their increasingly better looking. I'm especially looking forward to Infitinit's next M45....

 

[Chesty Bonds]

Yeah, I agree with the article. Several factors went into this new 5ers dismal sales. While my attitude towards the exterior stylining is lukewarm at best, I must say my greatest disappointment came from the interior. I sat in the new 5er several times, including a 545i at a dealer when I got my sunroof (it was just the cover, actually) fixed and I really thought it felt "cheap." I mean, I think that the quality of the plastics didn't look or feel as good as those in my 323i. You couldn't see the texture in the dash the same way you can see it mine.

Also, one of my peeves was that open storage compartment at the bottom of the console--it reminded me of my mom's old Camry. Now I think they replaced that with a smooth surface, but it still looks crappy because its too plain--there's no buttons or anything there. Also, I dislike BMWs new "incorporate-the-passenger monodash," the one that connects the passenger and driver--there's really no angle at the driver or driver-centrism as in the old models. I know the new 7s are the same way, and I think it looks to Lincoln TownCar-ish.

I think Audi got it right with the new A6. It's not too radical, a nice keep-it-in-the-family redesign from their previous one, and the interior is absolutely gorgeous--not to mention, it's definitely a driver's cockpit.

Hopefully BMW gets their act togethor (styling and quality-wise), otherwise, I'm going to be looking across the street. And I don't mean just switching from one German brand to another. I think they're going to (they already are) face really stiff competition from the Japanese automakers in the coming years. The Japs build great quality cars and their increasingly better looking. I'm especially looking forward to Infitinit's next M45....

I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm at a loss to explain why BMW ditched the driver-facing console. For me, the new 5 and 7-series feel cheap and nasty. I've been in one of the new 7's and i have to say i was totally underwhelmed. The doors closed not with the usual BMW thud but more of a clunk and there were appallingly bad plastics dominating the interior. Apparently, BMW use the acreage of plastics in the new models because "they reflect the public's newfound desire for utilitarianism". How convenient that is. Just look at the abomination that is the X3. How much black plastic do they want to use on the exterior?

As for the styling, well, that's always up for discussion. I know BMW have to be seen to be progressive etc, etc, but the 7-series? The less i say about that the better, i think.

 

[tool fan]

OK I must jump in here.....what do y'all expect. These are BMW's....not freaking Maybachs or Rolls Royces. Of course there is plastic, there is plastic in the older model 5 series. iDrive is GREAT (when it works right) I had a 98 528i German Spec BMW and now a 2004 530i, and my new 530i out performs the 528 in ALL aspects. Driver road connection is a 1000 x's better. I can tell where the threshold to the "danger zone" is way better in the 2004 model than I could in the 98 model. I must say it really bothers me that y'all are always bad mouthing the new 5 series. Rent one for 2 weeks or month and then talk shit. I don't care that you have "ridden" in a new 5er or a new 7 series. Go drive one and push its limits, then you can talk. I drive mine on the Autobahn everyday and I must say that this car absolutly kicks ass in drivability. For people that always talk shit about quality parts, y'all are sure in love that M3 CSL which is made up of plastic and CARD BOARD and costs 100,000 dollars. Can't dog one without doggin the other.

The stats on this article are OLD. The 5 series touring wagon has been out now for 3 months. BMW 5 series sale are up 50% and the new 5 series is a top 5 resale value car. I will find the stats and post them so you don't think I am talking out of my ass.

Lastly, simply put!!!!!!!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE NEW 5SERIES, DON'T FREAKIN BUY ONE!

 

[tool fan]

It's depressing to read that but, at the same time, it's also unsurprising. I definitely believe the i-Drive thing is a big mistake. It's just too complex and when i think of what could go wrong with it down the line it makes me shudder. I think this will have a huge impact on BMW's well-known reliability and build-quality.

The styling? You either like it or you dont and i think therein lies the problem. It's just too divisive and i do believe that it's entirely possible to create a style that appeals to a vast majority. Perhaps these figures will help BMW return to their more traditional roots.

Audis NEW equivelent to iDrive is WAY more complicated than iDrive is. Yes iDrive has issues (believe me I know) but it is a great system that is EASY and comprehensive when it works right. As with all things new and technical....it takes time to work out the kinks and bugs. Have faith, it will all work out.

 

[Wallie05]

OK I must jump in here.....what do y'all expect. These are BMW's....not freaking Maybachs or Rolls Royces. Of course there is plastic, there is plastic in the older model 5 series. iDrive is GREAT (when it works right) I had a 98 528i German Spec BMW and now a 2004 530i, and my new 530i out performs the 528 in ALL aspects. Driver road connection is a 1000 x's better. I can tell where the threshold to the "danger zone" is way better in the 2004 model than I could in the 98 model. I must say it really bothers me that y'all are always bad mouthing the new 5 series. Rent one for 2 weeks or month and then talk shit. I don't care that you have "ridden" in a new 5er or a new 7 series. Go drive one and push its limits, then you can talk. I drive mine on the Autobahn everyday and I must say that this car absolutly kicks ass in drivability. For people that always talk shit about quality parts, y'all are sure in love that M3 CSL which is made up of plastic and CARD BOARD and costs 100,000 dollars. Can't dog one without doggin the other.

The stats on this article are OLD. The 5 series touring wagon has been out now for 3 months. BMW 5 series sale are up 50% and the new 5 series is a top 5 resale value car. I will find the stats and post them so you don't think I am talking out of my ass.

Lastly, simply put!!!!!!!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE NEW 5SERIES, DON'T FREAKIN BUY ONE!

1) I never said anything about BMW's excess use of plastics or that I expect all surfaces to be covered in wood and leather. My comment was based on my own observations that the QUALITY of the plastics, in my opinion, has degraded from previous gen. autos.

2) The article is not "old"; the article's stats are not old. The article mentions sales figs through the first THREE QUARTERS of 2004. Let me put this in layman's terms: 1Quarter = 3 months. 3Q = 9 months. That would mean the stats are good up to and including September of this year.

3) As far as I know, the 5er wagon hasn't been formally introduced, at least not in the U.S.--which is the likely market the article is probably referring to. Maybe they've been out in Germany, but not here.

4) BMW sales up 50%!! Wow, that's a new one to me. Last I checked, and I have my source ready, BMW sales are up at most 15%, and 8.8% over the same period (3Q in 2004) as the slumping 5ers sales. Furthermore, this is only due to 1 series sales, as well as the fact that BMW now counts Mini and Rolls sales as part of its overall sales--which doesn't necessarilly mean that BMW-specific sales are up. Obviously, the 1 series and Mini cars being less expensive than other models. So saying that cheaper 1er and Mini models are selling well, doesn't say much about overall 5er or 7er sales....

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk...model-puts-bmw-sales-up-15-1pc-name_page.html

 

[tool fan]

You are missing the point completely. I was simply stating that for someone who has simply "sat" in a showroom car, you are awfully judgemental. Go sit in a Ferrari in a showroom........uncomfortable and un friendly, but take one out on the road....completely different animal. You CANNOT argue this point with me. I have owned 3series BMW's and I have owned 5 series and currently OWN a 2004 530i. I have never said the BMW is the end all, say all in automotive engineering, thats just foolish, but at least I have some experience and have something to base MY OPINION on!!! Get some "behind the wheel" personal experience in the new 5er and THEN come back talking shit.

iDrive? To complicated? 99% of BMW drivers are college graduates. If iDrive is "to complicated" for people to use....well then I am sorry!!!!Probably should not have made it out of........say....the third grade. I say that if the iDrive system is to hard or complicated for you to use, your education level doesn't warrant you driving a Bimmer in the first place.

ohhh and Wallie, I just got off of the phone with my BMW AG rep in Munchen.....yeah...from the horses mouth. BMW 5 SERIES sales are up 52% in Germany and believe it or not the U.S. is NOT BMW's main source of revenue.

 

[adrean8j]

OK I must jump in here.....what do y'all expect. These are BMW's....not freaking Maybachs or Rolls Royces. Of course there is plastic, there is plastic in the older model 5 series. iDrive is GREAT (when it works right) I had a 98 528i German Spec BMW and now a 2004 530i, and my new 530i out performs the 528 in ALL aspects. Driver road connection is a 1000 x's better. I can tell where the threshold to the "danger zone" is way better in the 2004 model than I could in the 98 model. I must say it really bothers me that y'all are always bad mouthing the new 5 series. Rent one for 2 weeks or month and then talk shit. I don't care that you have "ridden" in a new 5er or a new 7 series. Go drive one and push its limits, then you can talk. I drive mine on the Autobahn everyday and I must say that this car absolutly kicks ass in drivability. For people that always talk shit about quality parts, y'all are sure in love that M3 CSL which is made up of plastic and CARD BOARD and costs 100,000 dollars. Can't dog one without doggin the other.

The stats on this article are OLD. The 5 series touring wagon has been out now for 3 months. BMW 5 series sale are up 50% and the new 5 series is a top 5 resale value car. I will find the stats and post them so you don't think I am talking out of my ass.

Lastly, simply put!!!!!!!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE NEW 5SERIES, DON'T FREAKIN BUY ONE!

Whoa TF....a little testy arent we? Must be this crappy german weather we are having today! LOL.......You are right about the CSL though....i saw it at the Frankfurt IAA last year and was a little underwhelmed. The carbon fiber parts looked cool but you could do that aftermarket. Now for those of you out there who are gonna start singing the praises of the CSL let me clarify, VISUALLY the car is underwhelming......esp. the interior..granted it is supposed to be a lightweight performance car...but look at the other big boys ferrari and lambo....ok maybe a bad comparison....

 

[Section_8]

Audis NEW equivelent to iDrive is WAY more complicated than iDrive is. Yes iDrive has issues (believe me I know) but it is a great system that is EASY and comprehensive when it works right. As with all things new and technical....it takes time to work out the kinks and bugs. Have faith, it will all work out.

I don't see many folks complaining about iDrive that actually have it, or folks that have honestly tested it out (more than sitting in the car in the lot fooling with the dial..). I was able to get a grip on it with about 45 minutes of driving, in a 6 spd manual car of all things.

If you have a elementary education, and simple hand/eye motor functions, you can work iDrive.. imho

 

[Wallie05]

You are missing the point completely. I was simply stating that for someone who has simply "sat" in a showroom car, you are awfully judgemental. Go sit in a Ferrari in a showroom........uncomfortable and un friendly, but take one out on the road....completely different animal. You CANNOT argue this point with me.

ohhh and Wallie, I just got off of the phone with my BMW AG rep in Munchen.....yeah...from the horses mouth. BMW 5 SERIES sales are up 52% in Germany and believe it or not the U.S. is NOT BMW's main source of revenue.

Talk about missing the point??

First, I never said anything about iDrive (go back; check it out) AND I never said anything about BMW's driving dynamics or that it has diminished with the new cars.

Secondly, did you get the part about the sales figs beeing good through the first three quarters?

As far as quality parts are concerned, I think that much you can tell from sitting in a showroom (BTW, I've been in the car several times). It's not that difficult to hop from my own car, sit in the new 5er, then make a comparison.

From the horse's mouth?? You'll have to do better than that....
So 5er sales are up 52% in one month, huh.

And what is BMW's largest market then??

 

[aNoodle]

I read last year was the first year that US sales ecplised Germany's (the SAVs and all). But I think ToolFan may be right about the 5er not having its greatest sales outside the motherland, that's cuz many people think it's butt ugggggly with wierd wacky wrong design.

Hey Tool, you can have your own opinion, but not your own sales figures. Are you seriously saying what Tom posted is a lie, or did you not have your cup of coffee yet?

How about all of us who don't much appreciate the new 5er agree that Tool's 5 looks sweet in his pic. Nice and shiney. Even better on the autobahn!

 

[deutsch100]

Whoa...ya'll are getting bitchy [fake] The new 5er is just beginning to grow on me (exterior only). For those of you who own a new 5 or 7 series...of course you are going to get defensive and defend it tooth and nail...you bought the damned thing!!

I am not saying the new 5 and 7er do not handle well, but the build quality and reliability are no where even near the previous models. BMW even comments by saying "they reflect the public's newfound desire for utilitarianism". Nice spin way of saying cheap. Just sit in a beautiful 2003 540i, then sit in a 2004 545i. The difference in the plastics, doors, seats, dash buttons and design will let you know immediately that the new 5er and 7er are cost cutted models.

So those of you with the new 5 and 7, we understand that you are going to praise them....just don't confuse your love and admiration for these new models with a large majority of the public and automotive world...who sorry to say don't share your opinion.

 

[Wallie05]

Whoa...ya'll are getting bitchy [fake] The new 5er is just beginning to grow on me (exterior only). For those of you who own a new 5 or 7 series...of course you are going to get defensive and defend it tooth and nail...you bought the damned thing!!

I am not saying the new 5 and 7er do not handle well, but the build quality and reliability are no where even near the previous models. BMW even comments by saying "they reflect the public's newfound desire for utilitarianism". Nice spin way of saying cheap. Just sit in a beautiful 2003 540i, then sit in a 2004 545i. The difference in the plastics, doors, seats, dash buttons and design will let you know immediately that the new 5er and 7er are cost cutted models.

So those of you with the new 5 and 7, we understand that you are going to praise them....just don't confuse your love and admiration for these new models with a large majority of the public and automotive world...who sorry to say don't share your opinion.

Nicely said, Deutsch100. My thoughts exactly. I too am warming to the new 5er exterior, though it's still not what I'd like to see in a BMW. The 2003s (and prior) interior was georgeous and solid, just like you say: a noticeable difference in parts between old and new. Put that interior in a new 5, and I might think about buying one.

You really hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph.

 

[deutsch100]

Nicely said, Deutsch100. My thoughts exactly. I too am warming to the new 5er exterior, though it's still not what I'd like to see in a BMW. The 2003s (and prior) interior was georgeous and solid, just like you say: a noticeable difference in parts between old and new. Put that interior in a new 5, and I might think about buying one.

You really hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph.

Thanks Wallie05!! I say you and I start a Million Man March on Munich, and have Bangle removed, and the production lines for the 5 and 7 series set back a few years to the days of REAL BMWs.

Glad to hear you are on board. Wunderbar!!!

 

[Abdoman]

I for one like the 5 series and I don't have one.. The interior is a stretch, but whoever said that the 7 has a poor interior must never have been in one. It's beautiful and nothing like the 5 series interior.

You guys bitch way too much about how it looks. BMWs are all about how they drive! Apparently, you people don't understand what it is to love to drive. Tool Fan understands!

 

[mclarensmps]

the new 5 is beautiful, the only good looking car in the whole new lineup imho

 

[Section_8]

To add to the 'BMW drive' comment by Abdoman, I have to concur that the new 530i I drove, gave me more of a feel of the road then any BMW I've driven since my bud's old '89 325is (E30). Over the years, it's obvious that BMW's cars have become more 'electronic' happy, and some say there has been a loss of that 'feel the road' feeling in the newer cars. I knew where every wheel was on the concrete in the new 5, the handling was fantastic. After getting over the somewhat 'light' feel it had at low speeds, I began to realize that I also 'felt' more of the road with that lighter steering. (which becomes more solid as you gain speed)

I certainly understand where some folks are coming from in regards to it's appearance - I'm waiting for the facelift for the 7 and 5 before I truly love them, but they certainly have the BMW feel if you take the time to drive them.


Someone said the new ones don't have the reliability or build quality of the older models. Well, where are the stats/numbers to show this statistic?

I'm not a overly well to do person, I've not had the opportunity to sit in say, a ferrari scaglietti, or a maybach, or a bentley, however I have sat in a new 7, and various new 'luxury' sized cars (as the rental places call 'em) due to my travel with work. The 7 has been thus far the nicest interior my butt has squatted in, hands down..

New 7 interior - http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/7er/5484_832.jpg

On par with the old 7's, if not a little cleaner. (imho)