What's the difference between an automatic and manual transmission?

[Wallie05]

Wallie05, you have a very interesting point there. You are saying that people who like SMG, just can't drive a manual, and prefer SMG becuase it does a lot of the work for them. I would have to agree with you here and tell you to pull out your ABS relay, completely turn off any form of traction control and pay somebody to take out power steering and power brakes. I can just as well call you a p*ussy for using all that, now can't I? You p*ussy.

First of all, I never made any such "point." Show me where I wrote that people who like SMG can't drive a manual? I am well aware that there is a difference between willing and able. Perhaps you should read my posts more carefully before inferring what points I am trying to make, you dumbf*ck. Yes, I'm name-calling again I realize, I just can't help myself. [read]

Oh and last time I checked, my brakes won't work unless I apply pressure to the peda, which is determined by--appropriately enough--ME.

As for you, jrt67ss350, you probably should have kept your mouth shut since you don't come off as nearly the authority you aspire to be. What makes you think I don't know anything about SMG? Oh, I thought the Z4 was the second version of this crappy idea instead of the first, excuse me. You read the article about SMG on bmwworld.com and now you're an expert, so clearly I don’t know have a clue about SMG? Please. Anyway, I will relent.

This is getting redundant. How many times will I have to repeat myself? The topic at hand is of no use debating any longer. I can tear at the lack of coherent thought displayed in this thread as a clear indicator of rampant dim-wittedness, thereby discrediting these already lame “arguments,” if they are worthy of being labeled as such. As least when I rant, there’s a point. Rhetoric, my friends, is still half the battle, at least in educated circles. The old adage, “diction over dictum,” still reigns. Use it some time—you’ll make your friends think you’re smarter than you really are.

Many of you can’t seem to comprehend even one of my posts in their entirety. Please, I urge you, read one of them from being to end (#29 is a good one). I have a feeling you’ll find the “debatable” arguments you so desperately seek there. For example, M Speed, you claim that “the fact that they [SMGs] don't get the feel of a manual (this is false statement, drive one long enough and you feel the shifts and can manipulate them as well) gearbox or that the car can at time seem disconnected from the driver,” are “good and valid debatable points.”

If you, or any other of compadres, would read post #29, you would see that I already proposed a similar point, in fact, this is the crux of it. But whereas I chose to refer to “control,” you chose to refer to “feel”—both referring to differences in each respective transmission’s “feel” and “control.” Hmmm. You can play semantics card if you choose.

You see M Speed, you, along with others, drop your two cents, say that I’m that wrong or that I don't know what SMG is, and pass this off as a rebuttal, then attribute a differing statement/opinion to close-mindedness (??). How can I refute such idoicy?? Like I said earlier: pathetic…

“Oh no, I didn’t expect a dissenting opinion from you, Mr. Elussive. Won’t you add an air of credibility to my statements by agreeing with me??”
- Quothe the M Speed.

The only thing that's closed-minded is your ability to grasp that fact that some people don't like SMG, for whatever subjective the reason that may be.

 

[finally330i]

I went from a Toyota Camry to a 330i with Steptronic and Dinan auto trans software. I haven't driven a manual since the Mustang GT I owned in 1987. There is a lot more to enjoy about my 330i than the transmission. I do like to drive it in manual mode because it only shifts when I tell it to. I downshift to pass, keep it in the upper rpm range, etc. I can't row gears, but I can saw gears? Plus my wife can drive it. I'm trying to sound simple because the steptronic is.

 

[frolf]

wallie you are a complete ass



but on topic, i'm totally ok with you not liking the SMG.

 

[brahtw8]

There are too many arguements (if you can call these feable rebuttals such) being posted in this thread to refute. One arguement is that the SMG is faster than the 6spd; the next mentions that the SMG is not an auto at all, but really a manual in spirit; and finally, the most ingenious example of all, that SMG cars are faster than mine. None of these is even worth debating, but the stupidity of the last is beyond disregard.

This much is clear: those who like the system are zealous, though illogical, in their defense of the SMG. None you have provided any discernable advantages of the system. But the disadvantages remain painfully obvious, such as lack of complete control of the drivetrain--wait too long on the gas, and the car shifts for your; need your mother-in-law to take it the store, put it in auto.

Your attempts to convince me of the control-sharing via computer are futile; if anything, they serve as a contradiction to your statements. Yes, it is a computer controlling the transmission; yes, the computer thinks it's a manual. I will not grant you this and you receive no points. In the end, I must conclude that your inability to examine my posts as a whole, combined with your inept responses, is a signal of involuntary defeat. The quote above is indicative.

I have never raced an SMG-equipped auto and never will; the only autos offered with the SMG (M and Z series) are much faster than my car, even WITHOUT the SMG. Why should a BMW with said transmission have any bearing on my determination to "beat them" if my car is not an adequate match anyway. They are not fast because they have SMG, they are just fast cars that happen to HAVE SMG. The quote above is simply moot, and the Jewish remark is utterly stupid, if not a tad offensive. I certainly hope I didn't offend any p*ussies with my p*ussy comment, but it seems to me that I have....

In the end, you have done nothing more than to prove that your efforts precede your abilities.



Must be the right foot, Lord knows the left one must be short of exercise.....

I normally don't correct spelling and usage, but you have convinced me you need to be taken down a notch or two.

Quite frankly, your posts have a pseudo-intellectual air about them; the smell of someone pretending to be more intelligent by using words that are not a normal part of their vocabulary.

Let us examine your beloved post #29, quoted above, to see if you are in fact the dumbf*ck you make others out to be. Sound like fun?

The word is argument, not 'arguement'.

The word is feeble, not 'feable'.

"None of these is even worth debating, but the stupidity of the last is beyond disregard. "

What a disaster of a sentence. To say something is beyond disregard means that it is worthy of regard. Perhaps you were trying to say that it was so stupid that it should be ignored on some level that goes beyond disregard, but that is simply nonsensical. If you were trying to say it was so stupid that it cannot be ignored, you should simply have done so.

"In the end, you have done nothing more than to prove that your efforts precede your abilities. "

Another disaster. I think the word you were looking for was 'exceed'. Precede arguably makes sense from a temporal standpoint, to say he put forth effort before he had ability, but 'exceed' works much better, as the statement was never about timing, but rather about your belief that he had more effort than ability.

 

[Wallie05]

I normally don't correct spelling and usage, but you have convinced me you need to be taken down a notch or two.

Quite frankly, your posts have a pseudo-intellectual air about them; the smell of someone pretending to be more intelligent by using words that are not a normal part of their vocabulary.

Alas, you caught me red-handed! Unfortunately, bmwboard isn’t generous enough to offer spell-check with their message reply boxes. My responses were written quickly and carelessly, with little REGARD for spelling and usage. No doubt you spent hours laboring over your post to ensure that it would not be susceptible to retaliatory attacks on spelling and usage. But you failed on this point, as I’ll show you in a moment. I assure you, from now on, I will write my posts in MS Word before cutting and pasting them in a thread.

Whew, talk about poly-syllabic!! Let’s count ‘em up, if you’ll forgive my slang. Nonsensical: four syllables. Temporal: three. And I'll tell you what, I’ll count “pseudo-intellectual” as one word, instead of as the hyphenated compound it is. So that’s seven by my count. Well done, braht. Ooops, I began a sentence with 'and'. Didn’t Ms. Third-Grade tell you never do that?!?!

Your minor quibbling about my “spelling and usage” shows that you aren’t the grammarian you make yourself out to be, for the simple fact that, well, you don’t mention grammar. Because if you did pay heed to grammar you would quickly see that you did not use the semi-colon (ever the popular mark of an educated man) correctly in your diatribe. You see, semi-colons are used to separate TWO INDEPENDENT CLAUSES—not one independent clause and one dependent clause.

The first part of the above sentence is an independent clause. Bravo. It’s contains its own subject, verb, and it expresses a complete thought. However, the second sentence, which is “attached” to the first via the semi-colon in question, is not an independent clause, but rather, it is a dependent clause. The second sentence doesn’t contain its own subject. Instead, the second sentence contains a restrictive element that refers BACK to the subject of the first sentence—the posts. What you should have done was use a comma, or if you really wanted to look bright, you could have even used a dash. Dashes can be used to amplify, specify, restate, or create a dramatic shift in tone or thought, which was the effect I think you were going for. Oops, I ended a sentence with a preposition. But I’m sure you know all about the incorrectness of doing that.

There's a simple test you can perform to see if a sentence is an independent clause or not. The sentence should contain a subject and should be able to be used as its own “free-standing” sentence. So let’s perform this test on the quote above. “The smell of someone pretending to be more intelligent by using words that are not a normal part of their vocabulary.” If you could see my Word document right now, you would see that the clause above is underlined in green, indicating that is a fragment. This is because “the smell” is not the subject and the clause does not express a complete thought. It's not a complete sentence. Indeed, it is a fragment that needs to be linked to an independent clause with either a comma or a dash.

Fhew, talk about the smell of someone pretending to be more intelligent than they are.

Do you see how silly this can get? It just doesn’t make much sense to ridicule poor usage, grammar, and/or spelling on these forums; people won’t (notice the correct usage of the semi-colon??) grant credence to your logic or argument just because your sentences are spelled correctly. Did I split the infinitive just there? I don’t know braht, you look it up for me.

Nice try. But you’ll have to do better than that.

 

[jrt67ss350]

The high and mighty Wallie hath spoken. All bow down before Him......

 

[Average Jae]

why is this thread still alive??

 

[vlad]

Com'on people, this thread is really deteriorating here.

 

[brahtw8]

Nice try. But you’ll have to do better than that.

When I originally crafted that sentence, it had the comma it deserved. Perhaps a forum administrator can confirm it, as the edit was within a few seconds and did not generate an edit notation in the thread. I assume the software tracks that kind of thing, but ICBW.

I put the semicolon there just for you in the hope that it would generate the kind of effort that it did.

Personally, I prefer the phrase 'militant grammarian' to just grammarian, but yes, I did not quibble with your grammar. Feel free to use it if you like.

I am glad you enjoyed my post.

 

[finally330i]

This is great entertainment!

 

[MrElussive]

I am completely disappointed in this statement from you MrElussive. Especially you! You think/feel that just because someone like myself purchased a 50K car equipped with a SMG II gearbox, because I can't or I am not willing to drive a stick? You think I wanted SMG II just so I can say, "I drive an M3"? That's not pathetic, but your statement is.

I happen to have two other cars that are equipped with manual gearboxes. I have always, and I repeat, ALWAYS purchased cars with manual gearboxes. The ONLY vehicle I have ever purchased that has not been a manual has been my SUV and my 328i. The M3, which believe it or not, still does not have an auto (SMG II IS A MANUAL GEARBOX!). I could have bought a BMW M3 with whichever gearbox I wanted and I chose the SMG II. This was not due to the fact that I did not know how or because I am not willing to drive a manual M3 equipped with what you people here only seem to think is the 6 speed manual. The only thing "pathetic" is close-minded people who can't read up and understand what an SMG II is.

The main problem I have with this thread is not the fact that some here doesn’t like SMG that’s fine with me. I understand what most here are trying to convey about the feeling they get with a 3 pedal manual gearbox. That one can have the feeling of full control of the clutch, pedal, shifting, and the ability to drag/slip the pedal/clutch at any given time. I understand this and I completely agree, but what I do have a problem with is someone calling foul names just because someone has a different opinion and the fact that a lot here can't seem to understand what SMG II really is. This is not an automatic transmission. This is a pure, and mean PURE, manual transmission. One can argue the fact that they don't get the feel of a manual (this is false statement, drive one long enough and you feel the shifts and can manipulate them as well) gearbox or that the car can at time seem disconnected from the driver. Those are good and valid debatable points, however to believe anyone would purchase an M3, no matter what gearbox it is equipped with, and only buy it to "pose in" is complete and total B*lls#!t. As for wallie05, I am not even going to respond to your close minded beliefs.....

My statement is based on M3 owners in my area. I do not -and never have- thought of you as one of those "M3 posers". Your posts on this board is justification enough for the SMG transmission. I see you as one of those people who truly appreciates what the SMG transmission is capable of and takes advantage of it on a daily basis. Unfortunately, where I live everybody is pretty superficial (particularly when it comes to cars) and everybody's bank accounts are sitting their driveway. I either out-drive the manual M3 drivers who think they know how to drive stick (and that is just piss poor in my book considering they have a 53hp advantage), or the M3 SMG drivers are just too busy sipping their coffee while talking on their cell phones. True BMW enthusiasts are very rare in my neck of the woods. Sorry if I offended you !!

 

[MrElussive]

Nice try. But you’ll have to do better than that.

What's the point of your presence here if you're always starting shit with others? Your "demonstration of intelligence" just makes everyone hate you more because you would think that such a smart person would know something so basic as not to get into so many f*cking arguments with other forum members. Personal opinion is personal opinion. If you don't like the SMG transmission, that's cool, it's not for everyone. But the system performs better downshifts and faster shifts (in general) than you and I ever will (of course I'm stating fact and not actually insulting my own manual skillz) and that is something worth noticing.
You seem to enjoy "putting yourself above others" and you just need to chill out dude. You're just another cocky college kid like me, frolf, epj3, wood_e, etc. so just get off your high horse man. If you feel you're just too cool to deal with us, then feel free to leave, I promise we won't flood your mailbox too much with "I'm sorry, please come back" cards from Hallmark.

 

[Big Daddy]

I concur with Vlad, and may I remind those inclined to use foul language, the "Terms of Use" state: "In your use of these forums, you agree that you will not post any information which is vulgar, harassing, hateful, threatening, invading of others privacy, sexually oriented, or violates any laws." The "Terms of Use" also state: ...For that reason, please avoid racist remarks, vulgarity,..." Violations could get your account suspended! Thank you.

 

[frolf]

I concur with Vlad, and may I remind those inclined to use foul language, the "Terms of Use" state: "In your use of these forums, you agree that you will not post any information which is vulgar, harassing, hateful, threatening, invading of others privacy, sexually oriented, or violates any laws." The "Terms of Use" also state: ...For that reason, please avoid racist remarks, vulgarity,..." Violations could get your account suspended! Thank you.

good point

 

[andreyiv]

Wallie05, why don't you reply to my other comments? You always seem to avoid some, I guess there is a reason to. Anyhow, an SMG won't shift gears for you if its not set in Auto. Heck, even older style BMW auto trannys won't shift gears if you press the little button that says "M" on it. ABS does the work for you by preventing the tires from stopping completely when you don't want them to, and this my friend would be your job if you didn't have ABS, so please, go ahead and take out that ABS relay.

Another thing, I completely agree with other people, you are allowed to hate one or another thing about a car just don't try to proove your opinion is supperior to others. If you remember I mentioned that I like the manual tranny better too and no body said anything to me, why can't you do that? Maybe you have to be different?

 

[CaveDweller]

Why can't people just say f*** you and move on? All this reading hurts my head.

Drink a beer and relax.

 

[andreyiv]

I don't know man, maybe showing yourself as superior in one way or another is considered a bigger dis.

 

[nadroj]

dude that aint fair i am not 18 so no one will let me race my car it aint my fuallt blame the god dman gov

i am 17 and i race my car evey month at auto X, join the bmwcca

 

[Kirby]

If I remember correctly, for SCCA Solo II they require you to have a driver's license. If you are under 18, a parent/guardian must be present. I don't know how well this is enforced.

I know for certain that Mazda Rev It Up requires you to be 18. I attended, but they would not let my daughter drive, who was 16 at the time.

Don't know about BMWCCA.

The BMW Driver training tour has specific classes for teens with drivers licenses.

 

[undien717]

I'm pretty sure it was the SMGII; but I'm guessing on this one, the Z4 was a 2004 model we (my father and I) drove and I just figured the system offered on the Z4 was the same as the new and "improved" SMGII version for M3s. Either way, the damn thing sucks.

Furthermore, just because the SMG is capable of shifting gears faster than a manual/human doesn't mean the actual car is faster. Check out the article below; it mentions that even though the M3 CSL is lighter and more powerful than the regular M3 it (the SMG-equipped M3 CSL) is still SLOWER than 6-spd M3??

"MORE MUSCLE, BUT...: The 'but' is because the standard BMW M3 is faster off the mark with its manual gearbox and a normal clutch."

So why bring up the "it shifts faster than a human can" arguement if it doesn't actually make the car faster?? [thumbd]

Again, I repeat: the SMG sucks and is for posers who want to "go through the motions" but don't want to commit to the real thing.

Teach your wife how to drive a stick..... [driving2]

Two things- one is that SMGII is only available in M cars. If you don't have 6 settings for manual mode and 5 settings for drive mode, then you can't compare your SMG w/ the M3's. I occasionally drive my dad's 545i SMG and the reason why he got SMG is because there wasn't any additional charge for it and it came w/ an M5 syle steering wheel. I can say that although it's not as quick as the M3's SMG, the upshifts in sport mode and the launch mode are still very quick. I enjoy driving it even though I drive a conventional manual car.

The other thing is that the CSL is not slower than a standard M3 w/ a conventional manual transmission. Just because it's quicker off the line doesn't mean it's slower. Track lap times are the best way to test the overall performance of a car. Tiff Needell, host of 5th gear, made a comparison between the standard M3 and the CSL on the Anglesey race track and the CSL was able to beat the M3's 52.8 sec lap time by a massive 2 seconds. I still have the video clip on my comp

And although many sequential-manual gearboxes found on cars today are just robotic mechanisms that's been adapted to an H pattern gearbox, the E60 M5 will be completely different since it's gearbox is designed to be SMG from scratch. Motor Trend states that the shift pattern of the E60 M5 is so bizarre that it can't be easily manages by the human hand. This third gen SMG technology will crank shifts in 0.065 sec.