What's the difference between an automatic and manual transmission?

MyHarley · Sep 25, 2004

I'm always amazed at the arguments on this subject for over a year now........as you get older not every time you get in a car is it for the pure driving pleasure, as you get older there are more errands to run to here and there, some of us drive 50% of the time for our jobs, sometimes we get in the car to go to friends house and at all these times we're not waiting and hoping for a spiritual moment from our car. Its a mode of transportation. If someone has the money to buy any car, buy it the way you want, what is best for you.........just be real and who cares what anybody else thinks. You actually think that the brand new Porsche guy really gives a rat's butt what anyone else thinks.......no opinions even count, only they can answer how they want the car, it is their money afterall.......

I'm fixing to go out for the evening in my little Steptronic 2003 Black BMW 330 Convertible, I'm so ashamed every time I get in my little measly, slow moving, cant do a heel and toe move driving machine..........but by gosh he'll get me there and it beats walking any day..............and I can guarantee you the valet will park him right in front........just because the valet knows how ashamed I am that I drive a steptronic........ [bigcry]

do you think I should tell the valet that I drove a stick shift for over 25 years and maybe I can regain some dignity and feel redeemed this evening....... [fake] [fake]

MrElussive · Sep 25, 2004

epj3 said:

That couldn't be further from the truth. Nobody likes "true" sports cars anymore....they just don't sell. Everybody likes their cars to be drivable nowadays, so they have to have stuff like leather seats, decent sound system, etc. Nobody likes to pay a lot of $$$ for a car that doesn't come with good features...it's just not worth it.
Take the Honda S2000 for example, a very true sports car. The car received a face lift and the engine was "toned down" because the engine and the drive was simply too raw for a lot of S2K owners.

bahnstormer · Sep 25, 2004

my personal opinion -

if i pay more than $40,000 dollars for a car I'd like to
feel the gear box, its whine, its click its mechanical link
every time i shift. Not push some electric button.
sure its fast, but only on a race track. and if i have
$40,000 for 1 car then i'm sure i'll have enough for
a dedicated race car. =]

back on track though, if i pay $40,000 i don't want the
auto tranny to tell me when to shift =[

BMWdude · Sep 25, 2004

bahnstormer said:

I see no logic in this, if you pay $40k and like standard then thats what you order. If you pay $40k and like auto, then thats what you order. I don't see the point of this argument.

And if "true" sports cars are not suppose to have luxury features and stuff then I guess a '85 civic is more of a sports car then a 2004 330i because the civic doesn't have power anything and is a standard.

MrElussive · Sep 25, 2004

bahnstormer said:

SMG would be absolutely amazing on a track. It does perfect up- and downshifts and you can brake & downshift at the same time (replaces heel-and-toe technique). What's really cool is that the paddle shifters and the digital display which shows what gear you're in, feel extremely sporty....it feels like something straight from an F1 car.

epj3 · Sep 25, 2004

MrElussive said:

Um, you said what I just said couldnt be futher from the truth, but then you went on to say the EXACT same thing I just said [slap]

Anyways, I know what you mean - and that's why I said... look at lotus and caterham.

brahtw8 · Sep 25, 2004

This thread should be closed.

[cheers]

andreyiv · Sep 25, 2004

Wallie05, you have a very interesting point there. You are saying that people who like SMG, just can't drive a manual, and prefer SMG becuase it does a lot of the work for them. I would have to agree with you here and tell you to pull out your ABS relay, completely turn off any form of traction control and pay somebody to take out power steering and power brakes. I can just as well call you a p*ussy for using all that, now can't I? You p*ussy. As I said before, I prefer manual myself because it is more fun and you just get more instinct feel for everything, just asking you to give the SMG respect for what it can do, you certainly seem to respect ABS and all the other nifty features.

When I was saying that the SMG would be faster around a curvy track, I was comparing it to the same car just in manual form, not your car.

Another thing, why do you have a manual? Sure it is faster, but its not like you are racing it. Why then? Just for the feel of it, more control and fun? Well if you like that why do you want to buy a 7 series?

jrt67ss350 · Sep 25, 2004

andreyiv said:

I didn't want to get involved in the idiocy that this thread has degraded to, but you made some excellent points, Andrey. Mr. Wallie, if you are so all about the feel of a car and not having your car decide everything for you, then why in the living hell are you supposedly going to be getting a 760iL???? There are few cars you could choose that are more automated and do more things for you than that car.

Oh, and by the way, the Z4 does NOT have SMGII. The SMG system in the M3 is a completely different animal. Even after all the discussion here, it is blatantly obvious that you don't have a damn clue about what the SMG system really is. Know your shit before you start lambasting people about it.

///M SPEED · Sep 25, 2004

MrElussive said:

I am completely disappointed in this statement from you MrElussive. Especially you! You think/feel that just because someone like myself purchased a 50K car equipped with a SMG II gearbox, because I can't or I am not willing to drive a stick? You think I wanted SMG II just so I can say, "I drive an M3"? That's not pathetic, but your statement is.

I happen to have two other cars that are equipped with manual gearboxes. I have always, and I repeat, ALWAYS purchased cars with manual gearboxes. The ONLY vehicle I have ever purchased that has not been a manual has been my SUV and my 328i. The M3, which believe it or not, still does not have an auto (SMG II IS A MANUAL GEARBOX!). I could have bought a BMW M3 with whichever gearbox I wanted and I chose the SMG II. This was not due to the fact that I did not know how or because I am not willing to drive a manual M3 equipped with what you people here only seem to think is the 6 speed manual. The only thing "pathetic" is close-minded people who can't read up and understand what an SMG II is.

The main problem I have with this thread is not the fact that some here doesn’t like SMG that’s fine with me. I understand what most here are trying to convey about the feeling they get with a 3 pedal manual gearbox. That one can have the feeling of full control of the clutch, pedal, shifting, and the ability to drag/slip the pedal/clutch at any given time. I understand this and I completely agree, but what I do have a problem with is someone calling foul names just because someone has a different opinion and the fact that a lot here can't seem to understand what SMG II really is. This is not an automatic transmission. This is a pure, and mean PURE, manual transmission. One can argue the fact that they don't get the feel of a manual (this is false statement, drive one long enough and you feel the shifts and can manipulate them as well) gearbox or that the car can at time seem disconnected from the driver. Those are good and valid debatable points, however to believe anyone would purchase an M3, no matter what gearbox it is equipped with, and only buy it to "pose in" is complete and total B*lls#!t. As for wallie05, I am not even going to respond to your close minded beliefs.....

jrt67ss350 · Sep 25, 2004

///M SPEED said:

I agree. It is clear that people like Wallie who sit here and blast the SMG up and down right and left for being an automatic transmission in a car like an M3 obviously don't have a clue what the SMG really is. They only come across as ignorant to those of us that took the time to understand what it is all about. If they would only take a few minutes to really understand what the system is all about and how it works......

Kirby · Sep 25, 2004

Black and Silver convertible cars MUST have automatic transmissions, blue cars MUST have SMG, and all other color cars MUST have manual transmissions. I know this to be a fact because my 330cic is silver and Lisha's is black, with Steptronic for cruising and commuting, and my 325i is green with manual shift for autocross. Also, anyone who has manual shift car and doesn't race on a track isn't worthy of owning a manual shift.

If you even dare to think otherwise, I will call you a p*ssie and pee on your roundel. And then I will say bad things about your mom/spouse/dog (pick one). [fake]

[rofl]

Now, how stupid does that sound?? Well, that's what this thread has degraded to.

Come on - Different strokes for different folks - get over it!!

epj3 · Sep 25, 2004

Kirby said:

Black and Silver convertible cars MUST have automatic transmissions, blue cars MUST have SMG, and all other color cars MUST have manual transmissions. I know this to be a fact because my 330cic is silver and Lisha's is black, with Steptronic for cruising and commuting, and my 325i is green with manual shift for autocross. Also, anyone who has manual shift car and doesn't race on a track isn't worthy of owning a manual shift.

If you even dare to think otherwise, I will call you a p*ssie and pee on your roundel. And then I will say bad things about your mom/spouse/dog (pick one). [fake]

[rofl]

Now, how stupid does that sound?? Well, that's what this thread has degraded to.

Come on - Different strokes for different folks - get over it!!

Aw come on, my roundel was just replaced!! I dont want it turning yellow again!

bmwboy · Sep 26, 2004

dude that aint fair i am not 18 so no one will let me race my car it aint my fuallt blame the god dman gov

brahtw8 · Sep 26, 2004

bmwboy said:

You can race cars before you are old enough to get a license to drive on the street . . .

MrElussive · Sep 26, 2004

epj3 said:

I meant that people can't handle "true" sports cars and that there's no such thing anymore. You can use the Lotus Elise and the Caterham Super7 or whatever it's called, but the Caterham is downright homo and the Elise is like a big empty can with wheels. Cars depreciate in value too fast to pay so much many for something that isn't drivable on a daily basis. Also, both cars are extremely poor in terms of safety....I'd be scared just driving each one (and downright embarrassed in the Caterham).

brahtw8 · Sep 26, 2004

MrElussive said:

You are probably the only person to ever call a Caterham 'homo'. Honestly, I really doubt anyone has previously said that. Now a few people will, as a result of this thread.

I hate to say this, but you sound like my mom with your talk of safety, depreciation, embarassment, and the impracticality of a true sports car . . .

[bath]

Live a little Mr E, and get thee to a driving school next Spring if not this Fall, so you can really learn how to drive and appreciate the car you have.

I am often the voice of knowledge on topics like this, which is pretty sad because my greatest asset is knowing how little I really know and how bad a driver I really am, despite the fact that I am likely superior to 95% of you. And by bad, I mean that I have been pondering my driving instructor's thoughts after spending the weekend at Road America for Octoberfast 2004 with the Badger Bimmers chapter of the BMW CCA, sadly only my 3rd year at this event.

BTW, Caterhams have held their value pretty well, and you could buy one used and sell it with relatively little depreciation. The Elise is currently selling for $10k over sticker if you want one today, and the waiting list is well over a year, AFAIK.

frolf · Sep 27, 2004

oh man, i'd love a caterham or an elise.

a cars monetary value doesn't come close to equalling its sentimental value, especially on this forum.

Kirby · Sep 27, 2004

brahtw8 said:

I understand your comments completely. I ran AutoX a few weeks ago, and took a 2nd place, but the competition was limited. Yesterday, I ran in a different region, and came in 9th out of 9 in my class, about 6 seconds off best in class. Seven of the other drivers are regional champions, and 4 or 5 just ran at nationals and placed in the top 10. TOUGH competition, especially for a rookie. It really lets you know how far you have to go.

Regarding the Elise, it is currently thought that it *may* be the best low cost production sports car on the market. We talk about our cars as sports cars (bimmers, vettes, etc, etc), but they are luxury sports street cars. The Elise and Caterham are true, raw, sports cars purpose designed and built for the track.

The reason is because most people have confuse luxury sports cars with true sports cars, and wrongly feel the true sports car is inferior due to stiff ride, twitchy handling, spartan interior, etc. which are all atributes of a true sports car. It's gotten to the point where some of the magazine reviewers have also lost sight of this, and write crappy reviews. The F1 Williams BMW doesn't have BMW assist or an HK stereo, does it?

Section_8 · Sep 27, 2004

Simple

Auto/Steptronic - Car's computer shifts you when it decides to, you just floor it. (slipping to 'sport' mode is just like going through the gears D, D3, D2 in other cars..) No clutch, torque converter instead.
SMG - The car has a computer controlled clutch, you decide when to shift, mash your + or - paddle, car does the gear change.
Manual - you have a physical clutch, you shift the gears in/out on your own. (row row row your gears..)

I haven't read all 3 pages, but it seems like everyone and their mother is already off to the races saying which is faster than the other, I think the original post just asked for the major differences?

I do think my next BMW will be SMG though. I've been an adament Manual, gear rowing bastard forever, but I got a chance while on vacation to drive my wife's cousin's Z4 SMG - I'm speechless.

I don't mind giving up that clutch to know I have both hands on the wheel and it's shifting faster than I can anyhow.

And quite happily (as someone pointed out I believe, albeit in a negative way) if you have SMG, you 'can' put it into Auto mode if someone else needs to drive your car. Have a manual? Don't count on many folks having a clue what to do with that 3rd pedal. Leg injury? better get a rental of you have clutch, or get good at shifting with a crutch on your clutch..

Happily rowing since '86.

What's the difference between an automatic and manual transmission?

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