Roundel recommends Honda over BMW for track!
- Thread starter Pete K
- Start date
![[^]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_approve.gif "Approved [^]"){kind=icon}
![[:)]](/images/smilies/smile.png "Smile [:)]")
You should not have vibration, road noise and instability in any car at 100, my truck does just fine at 110. It's a Honda thats why.![[rolleyes]](/images/smilies/rolleyes.png "Roll Eyes (Sarcastic) [rolleyes]")
I doubt the 520d in europe went much faster... and that's a bmw. 
Put the pipe down and walk away.....
Honda/Acura/Toyota/Lexus/Nissan/Infinity are all great car manufactures. They may not be what you are looking for in a car/truck/SUV, but the statement, "Honda does not make good cars-they are Japanese" couldn't be farther from the truth.
I have driven many Honda's and Nissan's above 100 MPH and all was well with them.....
Honda/Acura/Toyota/Lexus/Nissan/Infinity are all great car manufactures. They may not be what you are looking for in a car/truck/SUV, but the statement, "Honda does not make good cars-they are Japanese" couldn't be farther from the truth.
I have driven many Honda's and Nissan's above 100 MPH and all was well with them.....
Part of what made BMW what it is today--a sought after status symbol--are people like us who push the cars to the limit and then brag about how solid our BMWs are. Word gets around to the general population and then everyone wants one because they want to be percieved as a hard-core driver.
But what happens when new BMWs can't hold up to our expectations? and more and more enthusiansts start driving Hondas or Nissans or whatever?
I think Porsche has done a really good job at making cars that the Beverly Hills crowd wants but can still perform and hold up on the track and back up it's rep.
Just my two cents.
But what happens when new BMWs can't hold up to our expectations? and more and more enthusiansts start driving Hondas or Nissans or whatever?
I think Porsche has done a really good job at making cars that the Beverly Hills crowd wants but can still perform and hold up on the track and back up it's rep.
Just my two cents.
Honda is not awesome - they are all just eco boxes, just like a Hyundai, Toyota, Nissan, and Daewoo.
Look at it this way; Asians car manufactures view cars as "white goods" (Fridges, Microwaves and Computers), they should be mass produced, and also be cheap and efficient, no if you look at it that way you have no soul yourself, cars are not white goods they need a SOUL, PASSION, excellence, performance, aptitude and an attitude, ASIAN CARS ARE NONE OF THE ABOVE. They build them like "white goods". Can't build a good car if that is how you are going to look at it. They have no soul, it’s like Maytag builds a white fridge and well GE, Amana, Whirlpool decide to build the same thing, well Europe and NA companies build their cars, and Asia just builds the same thing, mass produced, The Asian Way.
That is why I HATE Japanese and Korean cars, the point to buy them doesn’t exist, and they perform like a refrigerator with wheels, (watch it on the curves the ice comes out).
Watch the last episode of TopGear from last series, TP went out with Korean and Malaysian cars, he said the same thing, WHITE GOODS; he had in interview three weeks after with the Guardian and he said it was directed at all cars from Asia (they weren’t happy about the review on the cars apparently. I wonder why?
Look at it this way; Asians car manufactures view cars as "white goods" (Fridges, Microwaves and Computers), they should be mass produced, and also be cheap and efficient, no if you look at it that way you have no soul yourself, cars are not white goods they need a SOUL, PASSION, excellence, performance, aptitude and an attitude, ASIAN CARS ARE NONE OF THE ABOVE. They build them like "white goods". Can't build a good car if that is how you are going to look at it. They have no soul, it’s like Maytag builds a white fridge and well GE, Amana, Whirlpool decide to build the same thing, well Europe and NA companies build their cars, and Asia just builds the same thing, mass produced, The Asian Way.
That is why I HATE Japanese and Korean cars, the point to buy them doesn’t exist, and they perform like a refrigerator with wheels, (watch it on the curves the ice comes out).
Watch the last episode of TopGear from last series, TP went out with Korean and Malaysian cars, he said the same thing, WHITE GOODS; he had in interview three weeks after with the Guardian and he said it was directed at all cars from Asia (they weren’t happy about the review on the cars apparently. I wonder why?
Yeah that episode was awsome. BTW just incase you don't realise this as of yet you cannot change peoples views of things, so I just merely nod and agree its best and saves ones breath err... typing. I feel the same way but meh. Another thing to remember is to take Jeremy's comments with a grain of salt...can't stress it enough
![[;)]](/images/smilies/wink.png "Wink [;)]")
Hey thanks man....no my name is Mike....good lookin out, but..........I am all to accutely aware that Acura is a Honda (inside joke)
Your posts on this thread have been biased and un based TP is not the end all say all of car reviewers. We get the fact that you dislike Hondas and just because you dislike them doesn't mean everyone else should just submit to your opinion and agree. I won't own another Honda, not because I don't like them....just because I like BMW better and Bimmers are within my budget. If I was young and just starting out, I would probably buy ANOTHER Honda and feel pretty damn snazzy about it. I had my Honda Civic while I was here in Germany in 98 and I ran the shit out of it 100+mph on the Autobahn and NEVER had one issue. I used to own a 2004 530i BMW which I used to drive the shit out of on the Autobahn, and it had in the dealer's garage 16 times in one year...hence the reason I no longer own it. Ricers suck in my opinion, but a normal Honda that has not been "ricerfide" is a good quality econimical refridgerator on wheels that has far less maintance issues than your standard Bimmer. And one final parting note, a german spec Honda Accord Vtec coupe, will run neck in neck with an M3, the bimmer just wins out in the curves.
Your posts on this thread have been biased and un based TP is not the end all say all of car reviewers. We get the fact that you dislike Hondas and just because you dislike them doesn't mean everyone else should just submit to your opinion and agree. I won't own another Honda, not because I don't like them....just because I like BMW better and Bimmers are within my budget. If I was young and just starting out, I would probably buy ANOTHER Honda and feel pretty damn snazzy about it. I had my Honda Civic while I was here in Germany in 98 and I ran the shit out of it 100+mph on the Autobahn and NEVER had one issue. I used to own a 2004 530i BMW which I used to drive the shit out of on the Autobahn, and it had in the dealer's garage 16 times in one year...hence the reason I no longer own it. Ricers suck in my opinion, but a normal Honda that has not been "ricerfide" is a good quality econimical refridgerator on wheels that has far less maintance issues than your standard Bimmer. And one final parting note, a german spec Honda Accord Vtec coupe, will run neck in neck with an M3, the bimmer just wins out in the curves.
I'd take a stripped down BMW for the track any day over a Honda stripped in similar condition.. This just being my own personal owner's experience - Honda and Toyota are certainly no better than BMW in the 'reliability' department, despite what 'mags' say and whatnot (Mind you I'm speaking from personal experience..) I had a 84 civic rust to pieces on me before it was 5 years old, and blew an engine (5 spd). I had a Tercel (91) go through 2 engines in 1 1/2 years (5 spd). So much for reliability. 2 years in the BMW and it feels like I just bought it new (and it's 5 years old now..) My Toyota Solara that I traded in to get the BMW after 3 years was feeling spent - bought brand new. So I have Honda and Toyota experience, don't tell me they are 'great' freaking cars. They are no better than any other manufactur's cars put together by freaking robots..
So, I'm 'jaded', I guess?
Yes the new BMW's (Heck even E46's and up - if we're discussing 3 series) are electronic puzzles. IF you order them that way mind you - they can be less of a pain if you pick your options properly, at least insofar as what is assailing the drivers sensory input..
You can always simply order the car without all the drive assist, idrive, and the likes.
Explain to me why, when I go out to various track events here at Road Atlanta, 50% of the cars are BMW's - E30's still out there beating the track, a plethora of e36's, and shockingly enough (I guess to you guys) a horde of E46's too. These guys are not 'rich' (Well off enough to blow a few hundred on that track day at least), but they have BMW's because they are reliable, strong frames, 50/50 balance, strong engines. All that electronic crap you guys keep bringing up can all be ripped out (And should be if you're building an actual 'track' car). Yup, there were a few Accords out there, even a CRX that was 'really' whipping it around the track.. Good for them too!
To debate taking storeroom cars straight to the track is stupid.. Isn't that what you guys are talking about, new E90's, versus New Civic euro spec cars, or whatever? (roll eyes) I'm sure that finger recognition on the NAV is really needed at the track. oh wait, that's in the ACURA's isn't it.. If you just can't get away from taking storeroom cars to the track against each other - I'm pretty sure M3's have been this sort of car for a while, with a proven racing history. (sarcasm off) NSX's and skylines have been around a while, and are great track cars (Heck great every day cars if that's your thing). Why don't we see more of em, or why wasn't the series continued (NSX) if it's on line with an M3 or better? (Why aren't Skylines imported to the US if there's this big market just waiting on 'street race cars'.) See, just because someone 'can' make a competitive car for a while, isn't going to change my mind from a proven winning tradition. When BMW's start to suck at the track, ok then it's time to shop elsewhere (for me).
Whoever mentioned Porsche not 'breaking down' and making cars for the 'consumer' versus what a Porsche really 'should be'. Talk to early Boxster owners, you should get an earfull. How about a Cayenne owner.. My best friend got a Cayenne S as a graduation present from his mom for completing his thesis and getting his Masters... Awesome power, and for a SUV it handles good. Are you going to take that to the track?? Nope it's a 'super fast fridge' on rails of a sort.. It sounds like a porsche but it doesn't truly have the 'heart' (imho).
Sorry, thought I was on a BMW board, didn't realize belittling our own cars was the new 'in' thing, I thought rather you guys would be expressing all the + sides to BMW's at the track, which there are countless, and proven..
So in the end, it's whatever you want to think or believe (or desire) I guess.. To some of you older car owners - you should know. When the E36 came out the same hype was going on about how it wasn't a BMW anymore (Wah, real cars have 4 cylinders). Woah, the E46, even LESS of a BMW (wah, it's a few pounds heavier, oh noes!). Now the E90.. Guys, if you want an iron box go buy an E30, they are still out there running strong. Everyone (not just BMW) is gearing their new cars towards electronic gadgets, so if you don't like them in your BMW - don't think you can go into a Honda or Acura or Toyota, and get anything less electronical.. (Likely more..)
LASTLY: When(if) you track, EVENTUALLY something is going to go wrong if you track long enough and hard enough (Gee it happens to professionals too doesn't it?).. Which would you rather be in when that happens... (Given mostly 'stock' cars like you guys are discussing..)
2nd to last: I like new gadgets, I'm an IT guy, so.. I instantly gravitate towards technology and try to figure it out and use it (If someone made it, then there's already been a decent amount of thinking put into it, and a demand for the product - companies can't afford to just 'give things a try' these days, business is too competitive).. That doesn't mean all electronic gadgets are great, but if you take 5 minutes to read your darn manual you should be ok (My mind harkens back to the release of VHS, and the number of adults peddling me as a 7 year old to setup their stupid VCR's 'cause they didn't want to take the time to learn..)
Quit griping and start driving!!
[driving2]
So, I'm 'jaded', I guess?
Yes the new BMW's (Heck even E46's and up - if we're discussing 3 series) are electronic puzzles. IF you order them that way mind you - they can be less of a pain if you pick your options properly, at least insofar as what is assailing the drivers sensory input..
You can always simply order the car without all the drive assist, idrive, and the likes.
Explain to me why, when I go out to various track events here at Road Atlanta, 50% of the cars are BMW's - E30's still out there beating the track, a plethora of e36's, and shockingly enough (I guess to you guys) a horde of E46's too. These guys are not 'rich' (Well off enough to blow a few hundred on that track day at least), but they have BMW's because they are reliable, strong frames, 50/50 balance, strong engines. All that electronic crap you guys keep bringing up can all be ripped out (And should be if you're building an actual 'track' car). Yup, there were a few Accords out there, even a CRX that was 'really' whipping it around the track.. Good for them too!
To debate taking storeroom cars straight to the track is stupid.. Isn't that what you guys are talking about, new E90's, versus New Civic euro spec cars, or whatever? (roll eyes) I'm sure that finger recognition on the NAV is really needed at the track. oh wait, that's in the ACURA's isn't it.. If you just can't get away from taking storeroom cars to the track against each other - I'm pretty sure M3's have been this sort of car for a while, with a proven racing history. (sarcasm off) NSX's and skylines have been around a while, and are great track cars (Heck great every day cars if that's your thing). Why don't we see more of em, or why wasn't the series continued (NSX) if it's on line with an M3 or better? (Why aren't Skylines imported to the US if there's this big market just waiting on 'street race cars'.) See, just because someone 'can' make a competitive car for a while, isn't going to change my mind from a proven winning tradition. When BMW's start to suck at the track, ok then it's time to shop elsewhere (for me).
Whoever mentioned Porsche not 'breaking down' and making cars for the 'consumer' versus what a Porsche really 'should be'. Talk to early Boxster owners, you should get an earfull. How about a Cayenne owner.. My best friend got a Cayenne S as a graduation present from his mom for completing his thesis and getting his Masters... Awesome power, and for a SUV it handles good. Are you going to take that to the track?? Nope it's a 'super fast fridge' on rails of a sort.. It sounds like a porsche but it doesn't truly have the 'heart' (imho).
Sorry, thought I was on a BMW board, didn't realize belittling our own cars was the new 'in' thing, I thought rather you guys would be expressing all the + sides to BMW's at the track, which there are countless, and proven..
So in the end, it's whatever you want to think or believe (or desire) I guess.. To some of you older car owners - you should know. When the E36 came out the same hype was going on about how it wasn't a BMW anymore (Wah, real cars have 4 cylinders). Woah, the E46, even LESS of a BMW (wah, it's a few pounds heavier, oh noes!). Now the E90.. Guys, if you want an iron box go buy an E30, they are still out there running strong. Everyone (not just BMW) is gearing their new cars towards electronic gadgets, so if you don't like them in your BMW - don't think you can go into a Honda or Acura or Toyota, and get anything less electronical.. (Likely more..)
LASTLY: When(if) you track, EVENTUALLY something is going to go wrong if you track long enough and hard enough (Gee it happens to professionals too doesn't it?).. Which would you rather be in when that happens... (Given mostly 'stock' cars like you guys are discussing..)
2nd to last: I like new gadgets, I'm an IT guy, so.. I instantly gravitate towards technology and try to figure it out and use it (If someone made it, then there's already been a decent amount of thinking put into it, and a demand for the product - companies can't afford to just 'give things a try' these days, business is too competitive).. That doesn't mean all electronic gadgets are great, but if you take 5 minutes to read your darn manual you should be ok (My mind harkens back to the release of VHS, and the number of adults peddling me as a 7 year old to setup their stupid VCR's 'cause they didn't want to take the time to learn..)
Quit griping and start driving!!
[driving2]
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In our own realities, I suppose (never been roasted before?) . When folks have such varying thoughts (and actual experiences) with the same product, but just can't believe that it's the case (Yes, Honda engines blow) then it's up to the individual to make up their own mind, (Yes, BMW engines blow!) and hopefully all points would 'honestly' be considered.
I don't disdain Hondas, I won't tell someone to not buy a honda. I quite possibly in the future could be a Honda owner again (unlikely, but I'm not close minded). But I will speak out about the virtues of the cars I drive (and have owned) and my experience with both. Anything less is 'being cattle'.
Mooooooooo!
BTW: I secretly desire a MR2, I'd give a kidney for one to be in my driveway! (If I could fit in it!!)![[:(]](/images/smilies/frown.png "Frown [:(]")
. When folks have such varying thoughts (and actual experiences) with the same product, but just can't believe that it's the case (Yes, Honda engines blow) then it's up to the individual to make up their own mind, (Yes, BMW engines blow!) and hopefully all points would 'honestly' be considered.I don't disdain Hondas, I won't tell someone to not buy a honda. I quite possibly in the future could be a Honda owner again (unlikely, but I'm not close minded). But I will speak out about the virtues of the cars I drive (and have owned) and my experience with both. Anything less is 'being cattle'.
Mooooooooo!
BTW: I secretly desire a MR2, I'd give a kidney for one to be in my driveway! (If I could fit in it!!)
and yes I've been roasted before many times on these very same forums lol
a lot of you need to watch best motoring international.
www.bestmotoringvideo.com
dont' be ignorant.
www.bestmotoringvideo.com
dont' be ignorant.
There's a WHOLE LOT MORE to this Roundel story...
I think Mike Miller (Roundel Tech Talk) is going schizo. He totally contradicts himself in this month's issue regarding the E36. I don't get it, he is really sharp, but he blew this one?!?!?!???!?!
In this month's issue, on page 108, he answers a question about E36 suspension upgrades:
"...sometimes, very rarely, the E36 breaks apart. Cracks occur in the floor area around the rear suspension mounting points, and even more rare, in the rear wheel housings."
A few sentences later he repeats:
"E36 chassis failures are quite rare..."
Then on page 114 he responds to the question this thread is about:
"We hear of E36 cars with the rear floor broken apart around the suspension mounts on an almost-weekly basis."
Ok, Mike which is it????? Very rarely, quite rare, or almost weekly?????? [???1]
I think Mike Miller (Roundel Tech Talk) is going schizo. He totally contradicts himself in this month's issue regarding the E36. I don't get it, he is really sharp, but he blew this one?!?!?!???!?!
In this month's issue, on page 108, he answers a question about E36 suspension upgrades:
"...sometimes, very rarely, the E36 breaks apart. Cracks occur in the floor area around the rear suspension mounting points, and even more rare, in the rear wheel housings."
A few sentences later he repeats:
"E36 chassis failures are quite rare..."
Then on page 114 he responds to the question this thread is about:
"We hear of E36 cars with the rear floor broken apart around the suspension mounts on an almost-weekly basis."
Ok, Mike which is it????? Very rarely, quite rare, or almost weekly?????? [???1]
Kirby said:
I think Mike Miller (Roundel Tech Talk) is going schizo. He totally contradicts himself in this month's issue regarding the E36. I don't get it, he is really sharp, but he blew this one?!?!?!???!?!
In this month's issue, on page 108, he answers a question about E36 suspension upgrades:
"...sometimes, very rarely, the E36 breaks apart. Cracks occur in the floor area around the rear suspension mounting points, and even more rare, in the rear wheel housings."
A few sentences later he repeats:
"E36 chassis failures are quite rare..."
Then on page 114 he responds to the question this thread is about:
"We hear of E36 cars with the rear floor broken apart around the suspension mounts on an almost-weekly basis."
Ok, Mike which is it????? Very rarely, quite rare, or almost weekly?????? [???1]
In this month's issue, on page 108, he answers a question about E36 suspension upgrades:
"...sometimes, very rarely, the E36 breaks apart. Cracks occur in the floor area around the rear suspension mounting points, and even more rare, in the rear wheel housings."
A few sentences later he repeats:
"E36 chassis failures are quite rare..."
Then on page 114 he responds to the question this thread is about:
"We hear of E36 cars with the rear floor broken apart around the suspension mounts on an almost-weekly basis."
Ok, Mike which is it????? Very rarely, quite rare, or almost weekly?????? [???1]
![[rofl]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_rofl.gif "ROFL [rofl]"){kind=icon}
[shake]I've seen bestmotoring so I'm not ignorant according to your standards
![[wiggle]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_wiggle.gif "Wiggle [wiggle]"){kind=icon}
can't some people not like Honda no matter what it does or doesn't? [bmwkick]