Roundel recommends Honda over BMW for track!

[Pete K]

For those folks outside the US, the Roundel is the magazine of the BMW Car Club of America. In the Tech Talk section of the Jul 05 issue a member wrote in to the editor saying he didn't want to take his E46 M3 to the track and wanted advice on which BMW would make a good track/winter car.

The editor recommended a Honda Accord! In a nutshell he said BMWs have gone soft and are more luxury cars than sports cars and they can't take the abuse the E30 or E28 could. Apparantly, Hondas are up to the task. He also said if he definitely wants a BMW product then get a Mini.

I think a lot of BMW faithful would agree that the company is heading in a little different direction (more mainstream, less hardcore) but to hear this from a BMW magazine is kind of shocking!

 

[Big Daddy]

You said it in your first sentance, it is the magazine of the BMW CCA not BMW! It is also the editors opinion. Which issue was this in?

 

[PhatBimmer]

Thats really going over the border, its like saying BMW is the new Merc?

 

[epj3]

Why is he wrong? Bmw has gone soft. Variable steering ratio's, servo controlled brakes, drive by wire, and a suspension built around run flat tires... Plus visibility has gone down a bit in the e60 as compared to my e34...
New bmw's handle well, but the e90 weighs as much as my five!! If i were going with a track car, i'd buy a e36 328is.

 

[Kirby]

Well, Eric has posted recently how much he likes Honda.......

 

[Pete K]

Why is he wrong? Bmw has gone soft. Variable steering ratio's, servo controlled brakes, drive by wire, and a suspension built around run flat tires... Plus visibility has gone down a bit in the e60 as compared to my e34...
New bmw's handle well, but the e90 weighs as much as my five!! If i were going with a track car, i'd buy a e36 328is.

You should know that the guy writing in asking for advice said the rear suspension fell out of his E36 M3 due to structural failure of the rear floor--a known problem with hard-driven E36s.

As far as BMW being the new Merc, Mercedes has been pumping up their cars with more and more performance last couple of years--even though they did get soft in the 90s.

 

[epj3]

Well, Eric has posted recently how much he likes Honda.......

If Honda's were women, they would be low maintainence, quiet, and would be VERY easy to 'drive'. You don't even to worry about them not turning on.


So really honda's make the best women.

 

[PhatBimmer]

I think Jeremy Clarkson put it well when he said "buying a car just because its reliable is like marrying your wife because she's always on time but the sex is no good"

 

[tool fan]

If Honda's were women, they would be low maintainence, quiet, and would be VERY easy to 'drive'. You don't even to worry about them not turning on.


So really honda's make the best women.

But, but, but.............it is FRONT wheel drive............I would still own a Bimmer over any Honda (Acura might be a different story)

 

[epj3]

But, but, but.............it is FRONT wheel drive............I would still own a Bimmer over any Honda (Acura might be a different story)

Hahahahah don't get me wrong... I dont think I would EVER buy a honda or an acura... I'd rather have a subaru or one of the toyota or nissan owned brands.

 

[///M SPEED]

You should know that the guy writing in asking for advice said the rear suspension fell out of his E36 M3 due to structural failure of the rear floor--a known problem with hard-driven E36s.

As far as BMW being the new Merc, Mercedes has been pumping up their cars with more and more performance last couple of years--even though they did get soft in the 90s.

This is true and Mike Miller (the Tech Talk author) also states that he believes the same thing will happen to the E46 M3. Here is his quote, "You can tune a Honda well beyond design parameters and the chassis will not break apart like an E36 or E46 BMW" and "But it is becoming apparent that street/track work is no longer BMWs forte. Contemporary BMWs are just too heavy, too complex, and simply not strong enough structurally to handle the stress. We hear of E36 cars with the rear floor broken apart around the suspension mounts on an almost-weakly basis. Now reports are coming in on E46 cars with the same structural deficiency".

He also states that E30 and E28 5 Series are the strongest BMWs, "built like Tiger tanks".

Mercedes may have been pumping up their cars with more and more performance the last couple of years, but their quality as a product has taken a major dive. I believe Mercedes problem is brand saturation. There are just to many models being offered for such a high-end automaker....

P.S. Dan the article is this months (July 05) issue. It is in the Tech Talk section pg. 114 with the title "The Best Track Car?".

 

[epj3]

This is true and Mike Miller (the Tech Talk author) also states that he believes the same thing will happen to the E46 M3. Here is his quote, "You can tune a Honda well beyond design parameters and the chassis will not break apart like an E36 or E46 BMW" and "But it is becoming apparent that street/track work is no longer BMWs forte. Contemporary BMWs are just too heavy, too complex, and simply not strong enough structurally to handle the stress. We hear of E36 cars with the rear floor broken apart around the suspension mounts on an almost-weakly basis. Now reports are coming in on E46 cars with the same structural deficiency".

He also states that E30 and E28 5 Series are the strongest BMWs, "built like Tiger tanks".

Mercedes may have been pumping up their cars with more and more performance the last couple of years, but their quality as a product has taken a major dive. I believe Mercedes problem is brand saturation. There are just to many models being offered for such a high-end automaker....

P.S. Dan the article is this months (July 05) issue. It is in the Tech Talk section pg. 114 with the title "The Best Track Car?".

Heheheh, and bmw literally took an e28...reinforced it, streteched it a bit, and went BAM...and came out with the e34. I do agree... my e30, e34, and the e28's i've driven have been some of the most solid cars I've ever been in or driven. My biggest problem with the E90, is the fact it weighs AS MUCH as my e34 AND there isn't as much passenger space as my e34!!! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot...Yes it's faster, but it also has a modern 255 hp, versus my old school 208 (or whatever the chip makes it).

On another note... in the GT races that familiar names, such as Turner Motorsport, Bimmerworld, etc. race in...the mazda's are all way ahead.

 

[Chesty Bonds]

Why is he wrong? Bmw has gone soft. Variable steering ratio's, servo controlled brakes, drive by wire, and a suspension built around run flat tires... Plus visibility has gone down a bit in the e60 as compared to my e34...
New bmw's handle well, but the e90 weighs as much as my five!! If i were going with a track car, i'd buy a e36 328is.

This is absolutely correct. BMW ARE becoming like Mercedes - cars for granddad's rather than for young passionate drivers. All the extra weight and unecessary gizmos merely detract from the driving experience which used to be a BMW hallmark. I'll keep my E30 for a while thanks.

 

[Average Jae]

I think Jeremy Clarkson put it well when he said "buying a car just because its reliable is like marrying your wife because she's always on time but the sex is no good"

Jeremy's such a jackass, but i think he's right on the money w/ that one.

 

[epj3]

This is absolutely correct. BMW ARE becoming like Mercedes - cars for granddad's rather than for young passionate drivers. All the extra weight and unecessary gizmos merely detract from the driving experience which used to be a BMW hallmark. I'll keep my E30 for a while thanks.

I wish i still had my e30!! I'd consider a nice e28 though.

 

[Big Daddy]

Thanks for the info Scott.

I read the article and while I have no problems with the author I was simply addressing Pete K's comment about the opinion of the author being that of BMW's, and that he thought that the Roundel was a BMW magazine, it is not nor is it the magazine of BMW.

This is also another reason that I oppose tracking and drifting with the newer BMW's.

 

[epj3]

Thanks for the info Scott.

I read the article and while I have no problems with the author I was simply addressing Pete K's comment about the opinion of the author being that of BMW's, and that he thought that the Roundel was a BMW magazine, it is not nor is it the magazine of BMW.

This is also another reason that I oppose tracking and drifting with the newer BMW's.

It just kind of sucks that you can't easily build a race car out of cars with such a big racing heritage.

 

[Bryan330i]

If Honda's were women, they would be low maintainence, quiet, and would be VERY easy to 'drive'. You don't even to worry about them not turning on.


So really honda's make the best women.

LMAO

 

[bmw046series]

Mercedes ist an auto fur alte leute.

Honda ist an auto fur alte fags.

Front Wheel drive is the work of Satan.

Obviously the editor is from Car and Driver, Honda does not make good cars-they are Japanese, a friend of mine has a ’04 Civic – I am TERRIFIED AT 100, it drives like there is something wrong with it and the wheel feels like the car could go off the road at any moment-Hondas don't drive right. Oh I know what is wrong-- after all it’s a HONDA.

BTW tool fan if that is your real name - Acura IS A HONDA!

 

[PhatBimmer]

Jeremy's such a jackass, but i think he's right on the money w/ that one.

he is but he's funny too and has the best job in the world