You might be right......but i disagree. Look at the sales chart, the numbers have been steady/steadily climbing (with a large jump this month). The weight issue have been debated in many forums. People expected this car to weigh at around the same scale at the fbods (it didnt). Look at other cars i.e. mustang cobra (around 50-70lbs lighter) and the M5 which is quite a bit more heavier. Look underneat the car and youll see where the weight went. The GTO has very strong suspension componentry (needed to withstand australian conditions), bigger than many coupes (interior space), have great sound proofing, good quality and great seats. All these makes the car heavier. Is it bad for an everyday cruiser? No way.
Pontiac is selling more Aztecs than GTOs!!!!
- Thread starter Kirby
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for 30K what you get is a vette engine, a vette tranny with a plush and modern interior. Whats the price on a vette again? Many people (especially those on the net) just look at the power, 0-60, 1/4 and handling. The reality is that theres more to a car than just performance. The GTO like many BMWs and unlike rice cars have been able to combine all the good qualities needed for a great ROAD CAR. In short, its not a race car.
It would make a great sleeper. If you encounered this on the road, then you would have absolutely no idea of its potential.
Have a look at what we do to them here in australia.
http://www.fullboost.com.au/content/media/video/fullBOOST_calder_04_07_ls1.avi
Have a look at what we do to them here in australia.
http://www.fullboost.com.au/content/media/video/fullBOOST_calder_04_07_ls1.avi
The new GTO is extremely slow for being 5.7 liters. It has the same 0 - 60 as a 330Ci ZHP (3.0l inline 6). Stock for stock, the new GTO is not that great. Everyone one I've sat in has typical GM build quality. IE cheap interior, BODY PANELS that do NOT line up (i am absolutely boggled by this one!!), and then the 36,000 mile warranty is a joke. It's a cool looking car, but Pontiac is trying to compare it to something that beats it in every aspect.
Now if you mod them? that's a different story.
Now if you mod them? that's a different story.
Yes but GM always cuts corners. ALWAYS. Either a saftey item will be cut back on quality to save money, a visual item will be cut back on quality to save money (not sure how they could do that any more, even with the vette), or they cut back on the quality of functional parts. Every single one of GM's cars, except the ones from across the ocean, suffer from this.
it's just fact. Anyone who argue's it needs to wake up. I know BMW cuts corners to but not to the point anything is sacrificed. There's a reason the 3 series BMW will cost you $10k+ more than an equivalent Grand Prix. And its not for that badge.
it's just fact. Anyone who argue's it needs to wake up. I know BMW cuts corners to but not to the point anything is sacrificed. There's a reason the 3 series BMW will cost you $10k+ more than an equivalent Grand Prix. And its not for that badge.
Were talking about the Pontiac GTO not the holden monaro, even tho they are based on the same body and engine its not the same car. The monaro is an overall prettier car might handel better too. Im judging the pontiac and not the monaro so monarocountry stop aruging. No offense to anyone here, but pontiacs are crap, I spent 14 days in one, a 1990 Bonneville and a 2004 Bonneville, ( 90 broke down so we rented an 04) and they were both low quality.
American made cars are cheap quality. And thats the end of it Jeremy Clarkson and many other reviewers always make fun of it.
Like Epj said, and like I said earlier, the gto is comparable to the 3 series. It dosent take much skill to put a 5 something liter V8 engine into a small car to make it go fast. Even still the 3-series comes out ahead of the GTO as the BMW is a Luxary Sports sedan, it will still beat the GTO in a straight line, beat it on a course, and any other test you throw at it. Gotta face it a pontiac is a pontiac..
I compleately understand that ur just trying to open our eyes, I saw the reviews for the monaro and the gto, just a car some other people would consider.
American made cars are cheap quality. And thats the end of it Jeremy Clarkson and many other reviewers always make fun of it.
Like Epj said, and like I said earlier, the gto is comparable to the 3 series. It dosent take much skill to put a 5 something liter V8 engine into a small car to make it go fast. Even still the 3-series comes out ahead of the GTO as the BMW is a Luxary Sports sedan, it will still beat the GTO in a straight line, beat it on a course, and any other test you throw at it. Gotta face it a pontiac is a pontiac..
I compleately understand that ur just trying to open our eyes, I saw the reviews for the monaro and the gto, just a car some other people would consider.
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First of all, the GTO would absolutely KILL a 330 ZHP. Give me a break, the ZHP is only 235hp whereas the GTO is 350hp and 365 torque. I remember reading that the GTO does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds and is even faster at higher speeds. I don't even expect my G to take one in a straight line, and now you guys are saying the ZHP is faster??? Open your eyes....
I think you need your eyes checked because you also accused the new Corvette of this on another thread. So every American car just randomly has body panels that do not line up? Yes, that makes sense. And how would you know if the body panels are not lined up properly if you don't know how the body panels are really supposed to line up? Some cars just have weird angles where it may look like the body panels aren't lined up, but they really are. And since you know pretty much nothing about the Corvette and the GTO I'm just gonna say that your body panel comments are completely invalid.
Key phrase here is "except the ones from across the ocean". If im not mistaken (very doubtful) then you just proved my point. The GTO wasnt made in america but in Australia. The only american part in the car are the engine and tranny (from the vette). The chassis is actually evolved from and came from germany. This however was widened and reinforced to withstand australia's harsh outback conditions.
As for Holden products.....currently they are the number one GM division (with record sales for the last 6 years and was the only division that achieved GM's growth and profitability goals). They have also been given leadership of GMs global RWD medium car development. The next platform for the monaro/commodore would be the Holden VE.
The VE chassis have been sought by many GM subsidaries, including SAAB. Holden engines 3.2 or 2.8 TT would also power either a SAAB supercar (?) or an Alfa supercar (?).
True there are several areas they skimped on including 1) 17inch mags 2) side airbags and 3) dual. However america also got more power. Drive the car before bagging and labeling the GTO as just "another pontiac".
As for Holden products.....currently they are the number one GM division (with record sales for the last 6 years and was the only division that achieved GM's growth and profitability goals). They have also been given leadership of GMs global RWD medium car development. The next platform for the monaro/commodore would be the Holden VE.
The VE chassis have been sought by many GM subsidaries, including SAAB. Holden engines 3.2 or 2.8 TT would also power either a SAAB supercar (?) or an Alfa supercar (?).
True there are several areas they skimped on including 1) 17inch mags 2) side airbags and 3) dual. However america also got more power. Drive the car before bagging and labeling the GTO as just "another pontiac".
Holy crap. This thread has become more than I can resist. Yet another example of the blinders that everyone here seems to have about GM cars.
Don't you guys get it? It's been said 100 times in this thread already, but I will say it again. IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME CAR except for the location of the fuel tank to meet US crash standards, the exhaust (which sounds better on the GTO than on the Monaro), and the front fascia (which isn't even all that different from that of the Monaro). Other than those minor differences, it is the SAME CAR!!
And one last time for Eric's benefit - it is NOT an American car. This car IS one of those GM cars that comes "from across the ocean." It was NOT designed in America, and it is NOT built in America. It is built right along with the Monaros in the same plant down under. It doesn't feel like an American GM car inside, and it doesn't look like an American GM car outside because, guess what? It isn't an American car!! You can't debate that!
As far as this car being compared to the 3 series - if this car is legitimately being compared to the 3 series, then it should never have been the called the GTO. The REAL GTOs were a very different kind of car than the 3 series is - they filled a very different niche in the automotive market.
Everyone here seems to be throwing flak at the GTO for not being a razor sharp handler, not having world-class brakes, and being heavy, yet acknowledging that the car is all about going fast in a straight line (which it does a very good job at) - I guess it really is fairly true to the REAL GTOs of the past since those comments could also be used to describe the original GTOs. That's exactly what they were all about - damn fast in a straight line.
The car shouldn't be compared to a 3 series, because it isn't a 3 series, and that isn't its intent. If some stooges in the marketing department at GM are pitching it that way with commercials and whatnot, then that's their mistake, NOT the car's. The people who buy this car are not comparison shopping at the BMW dealer. A big segment of the US buyers of this car are those that see it as the next best thing to (or better than, depending on how you look at it) the retired F-body cars (Camaros and Firebirds). It's the closest offering GM has to the F-bodies after their ridiculous decision to discontinue those lines instead of redesigning them. After examining the car very closely in person, that's how I see the new GTO - it's the F-body that should have been on the market here 5 years ago (although with a slightly different skin). By the way, the three GTOs I sat in and scrutinized had perfectly aligned body panels, and they were very early production GTOs.
Bottom line - It ain't a 3-series, people!!
And one last time for Eric's benefit - it is NOT an American car. This car IS one of those GM cars that comes "from across the ocean." It was NOT designed in America, and it is NOT built in America. It is built right along with the Monaros in the same plant down under. It doesn't feel like an American GM car inside, and it doesn't look like an American GM car outside because, guess what? It isn't an American car!! You can't debate that!
As far as this car being compared to the 3 series - if this car is legitimately being compared to the 3 series, then it should never have been the called the GTO. The REAL GTOs were a very different kind of car than the 3 series is - they filled a very different niche in the automotive market.
Everyone here seems to be throwing flak at the GTO for not being a razor sharp handler, not having world-class brakes, and being heavy, yet acknowledging that the car is all about going fast in a straight line (which it does a very good job at) - I guess it really is fairly true to the REAL GTOs of the past since those comments could also be used to describe the original GTOs. That's exactly what they were all about - damn fast in a straight line.
The car shouldn't be compared to a 3 series, because it isn't a 3 series, and that isn't its intent. If some stooges in the marketing department at GM are pitching it that way with commercials and whatnot, then that's their mistake, NOT the car's. The people who buy this car are not comparison shopping at the BMW dealer. A big segment of the US buyers of this car are those that see it as the next best thing to (or better than, depending on how you look at it) the retired F-body cars (Camaros and Firebirds). It's the closest offering GM has to the F-bodies after their ridiculous decision to discontinue those lines instead of redesigning them. After examining the car very closely in person, that's how I see the new GTO - it's the F-body that should have been on the market here 5 years ago (although with a slightly different skin). By the way, the three GTOs I sat in and scrutinized had perfectly aligned body panels, and they were very early production GTOs.
Bottom line - It ain't a 3-series, people!!
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I have a pretty good idea of the 3 series cars, trust me they are nowhere near the monaro(speed wise), even more so in the GTO. The huge time differences of GTOs comes from it launch difficulty (from its IRS). It takes some time to get used to it, but when you do expect your time to drop 13.1 -13.6. For bigginers, an average time would be in the 13.6-14.1.
Are you actually talking about the new GTO, not the GA?. Because from what I know, GTOs best quality is its interior.
have a look, does this look like your "typical pontiac"? was this the car you saw?
Are you actually talking about the new GTO, not the GA?. Because from what I know, GTOs best quality is its interior.
have a look, does this look like your "typical pontiac"? was this the car you saw?
Thats your opinion.
Also this GTO was bob's pet project. Prior to bob, holden was basically left out by GM. As a result holden developed into a very lean and innovative company (try making cars for a population of 20mill). GM is now trying to copy Holden's flexible production (around 20 different cars (coupe, sedans, utes, wagons, dual cabs, 4wd, RWD, rhd and lhd's) going through one production line).
The look might seem dated......as ive said before a whole new Holden would be released in 2006.
Also this GTO was bob's pet project. Prior to bob, holden was basically left out by GM. As a result holden developed into a very lean and innovative company (try making cars for a population of 20mill). GM is now trying to copy Holden's flexible production (around 20 different cars (coupe, sedans, utes, wagons, dual cabs, 4wd, RWD, rhd and lhd's) going through one production line).
The look might seem dated......as ive said before a whole new Holden would be released in 2006.
monaroCountry said:
I have a pretty good idea of the 3 series cars, trust me they are nowhere near the monaro(speed wise), even more so in the GTO. The huge time differences of GTOs comes from it launch difficulty (from its IRS). It takes some time to get used to it, but when you do expect your time to drop 13.1 -13.6. For bigginers, an average time would be in the 13.6-14.1.
Are you actually talking about the new GTO, not the GA?. Because from what I know, GTOs best quality is its interior.
have a look, does this look like your "typical pontiac"? was this the car you saw?
Are you actually talking about the new GTO, not the GA?. Because from what I know, GTOs best quality is its interior.
have a look, does this look like your "typical pontiac"? was this the car you saw?
Even so, the fact that you're comparing a 5.7l coupe to a 3.0liter coupe REALLY SHOUTS underperformance. Again, I know what the 5.7l is CAPABLE of but we're talking stock for stock. I would NEVER take a GTO over a 330Ci ZHP.
Mrelussive: Think about it this way
GTO - 5.7l V8; 61.4 hp per liter
350hp; 365 lb-ft torque; 3,725lbs - 0 - 60 in 5.3 seconds; .093 power:weight ratio
330Ci ZHP - 3.0l I6; 75 hp per liter
225hp; 214 lb-ft torque; 3285lbs - 0 - 60 in 5.8 seconds; .068 power:weight ratio
I know 500 pounds does make a difference, but so does 125hp and 151lb-ft torque. It's VERY sad that even with that power to weight ratio, the GTO still barely out performs the 330Ci.
YES, I do know half a second to 60 is a decent jump, but again... so is 125 hp. That's almost like throwing a 318's engine worth of power onto the block of the BMW and ONLY being .5 seconds faster.
I like the gto, but it's not as great as everyone says it is.
Read my last post. I'm not calling the GTO a piece of crap, but ANYONE who says that GM makes quality cars is full of it. In the scheme of all auto manufacturers with everything considered, they arent even close to being in the top 3.
Personally I can't wait till the 6.0l is an option in the GTO. Then maybe I'll stop comparing it to other cars. BTW, I like how the GTO looks. I think its one of, if not the best looking american car.
Personally I can't wait till the 6.0l is an option in the GTO. Then maybe I'll stop comparing it to other cars. BTW, I like how the GTO looks. I think its one of, if not the best looking american car.