Sorry to say BMW, but it's time to pull your head out and save yourself.

MrElussive · Oct 14, 2004

deutsch100 said:

Yeah, I don't know about that. Around my neck of the woods, BMW's and Mercedes are both lining up at the dealerships. We have 3 Mercedes in our household and all of them are completely trouble-free at the moment. Mercedes' problems are really just electronic, whereas BMW's problems seem to be more mechanical which really isn't good at all, but would never sway me from getting a BMW.
And I don't know what magazines you're reading but Mercedes resale value is among the highest, way up there with BMW.
What I'm about to tell you is good advice: Disregard anything Consumer Reports has to say about cars. Let them stick to toasters and washers & dryers because every time I open up a Consumer Reports issue (my dad subscribes), I get absolutely DISGUSTED at what they have to say about every single car.

MrElussive · Oct 14, 2004

epj3 said:

Lotus just sucks dude. Very overrated. Any Lotus you buy will just give you far more problems than they are worth.

MrElussive · Oct 14, 2004

codex57 said:

The new CL (the new model ones currently on the road) is easily one of the nicer-looking cars on the road. It has a beautiful and unique appearance and looks great from any angle.
I agree with you that the CLS is absolutely ridiculous. The CLS is supposed to "bridge the gap" between the E and S, but the C already gets into E territory, and the E already gets into S territory. I see no "place" for the CLS in the Mercedes lineup. This is because the car was originally intended to be a cross between the CLK and E class: 4-door practicality with 2-door style.

MrElussive · Oct 14, 2004

I'd like to apologize for making all those posts, but it was just easier to quote you guys independanty.

First off, I'd like to say that this article is completely biased. Why would an MB spy be reporting how "this is going to be my next car" and that "we were in the production of it!" Clearly just some guys on MB's payroll. Mercedes is coming out with many more models and they are doing extremely well now (they are an ENORMOUS company) but Mercedes has one big flaw that I have mentioned time and time again: Mercedes just does not have too much of an entertaining drive. Don't get me wrong, you can have a shitload of fun with any AMG car just because they have a SHITLOAD of power. But even though BMW's new styling might not agree with all of us, I can assure you that the DRIVE (the most important part) has only gotten better with these new cars. The new 7-series is blazingly fast and takes turns faster than you can possibly believe all while providing a smooth and supple ride. The other BMW's are no exception.

As somebody who has grown up around primarily Mercedes, I have a ridiculous amount of experience with them. And I can tell you that the Mercedes drive and overall feel of the car has NEVER changed (which is a really good thing for loyal customers like my parents) and that if you really enjoy "the drive" you just GOTTA stick to the BM!!!! [bmwdance]
It's kind of ironic how a Mercedes whore such as myself is on a BMW forum defending the Bimmers, lol.

epj3 · Oct 14, 2004

MrElussive said:

It's not that - it's just the fact that the article itself is pretty stupid. All companies release shit like this to try to get people excited.

I dont really care what happens. In 3 - 5 years when I'm in my first job and looking for a new car, I'll worry about it. All I know is that if BMW keeps producing ugly cars with sub-"BMW Quality"... I won't be buying a bmw!!!! It's really a shame, I like almost everything about bmw... the cars (obviously), the dealerships, everything. Oh well.

MrElussive · Oct 14, 2004

Have faith, young one. BMW was actually supposed to do a mild "face lift" the 7 series for 2003 but decided to skip out, I guess for financial reasons???

I love the new 5, the new X3, and the new Z4. The new 6 and 7 have a bad exterior.....very un-BMW-like.

HornyHornet · Oct 14, 2004

All that article is, is just good ol' marketing. How else can you persuade people to look their way. You have to put out biased articles like that to get someones full attention. MBZs are already beautiful cars. I love the E-class styling and it was a comfortable ride; I recently test drove one just for kicks (E320). Its so cool! But it dont want to ride, I want to drive. My E39 is much more of a blast with less torque. And yes, the CLS is just got no reason to exist; another attempt by MBZ to look their way.

bmw046series · Oct 14, 2004

MrElussive said:

Hmm, a group of suburbs (Glendale, Shorewood, Bayside and North Shore) outside the city of Milwaukee on the northern part of town (the rich & safe part of the city) has the most BMW's & Mercedes Benz’s per capita than any other city outside of Germany.

This was according to auto registration in the state of Wisconsin and compared to other states - 1 in 3 individuals own either one of those brands which is basically ever other house. It’s actually one of the richest neighborhoods in the country, it’s not just both shores.

Murray BMF · Oct 14, 2004

I'm a LOYAL BMW driver, what ever they have to offer when I go to buy a new car is what I'll buy, this may seem narrow minded, as I NORMALY encourage outside the box thinking, but I'll never go to a Benz lot, so I'll just pick the best that I can afford from BMW. On a lighter note, I will see what the Nissan guys have to offer, as my wife has the same entushsiasm (how ever thats spelled) about Nissan's as I do about Bimmers, but thats just me!

deutsch100 · Oct 14, 2004

MrElussive said:

Yeah...I think I do know that [;)]

I will have to agree with you though that Consumer Reports is disgusting. I mentioned it because they used to always recommend Mercedes...I do not think there is one 2003 or 2004 model that is given the thumbs up.

I think your family is really lucky with your Mercedes!! Are they pre 1998/99? If not, then you guys are in a very slim percentage. Since 1995 we have had 14 Mercedes...up until the new SL and E Class....and let me tell you it was a horrible experience with any post 1999 MBZ we had. I know I was not alone...as I sat with the other people in the service bay. So maybe we can disregard Consumer Reports....but all the other reports and reviews totally dis MBZ. Not saying that BMW is without it's fault...but MBZ is whoring the brand and ruining what was a car "Engineered unilike any other". It really pisses me off, when I sit in a Chrysler Pacifica, Crossfire or 300....and just count how many parts and buttons we had in our Mercedes. Don't they realize they are really cheapining the brand??? Sad. Really sad. Damn...I am on my MBZ soapbox again [mad]

MrElussive · Oct 14, 2004

deutsch100 said:

They are all recent model, the oldest one being a 2002 model year (the other two are 2004 model years). We (as a family) have had Mercedes since about 1987 and my dad has been with MB all his life (some of his life was with BMW, but he hates BMW now for pretty much no reason at all). I don't mind Merceds and Chrysler sharing parts that you DON'T see but I was absolutely pissed to see that the Chrysler Pacifica shares the same gauge setup as the S-Class and other buttons with other Chrysler vehicles (as you mentioned).
It is unfortunate that you had such a bad experience with MB, but ours has always been satisfactory up to this point. By no means "perfect", but they never ever gave me or my parents enough trouble for us to reconsider the brand.
The problem with Consumer Reports is that they NITPICK too much. EVERY car has its own pros and cons, and all Consumer Reports does is focus on the cons of the cars and they just knock them all the time. And if you look at their performance specs (such as 0-60 acceleration), they always fall WAY below what real auto magainzes post AND the conservative numbers posted by the manufacturers. This just shows me that the people at Consumer Reports simply do not know how to drive and after reading multiple car reviews, it is clear that they are simply NOT car aficionados. I firmly believe that a person should have a PASSION for what they do (mainly in a case like this) and the idiots at Consumer Reports simply do not have much appreciation for automobiles.

The only thing I have to say is this: if you want a luxury vehicle that can take some abuse, runs flawlessly (problem-free), and is guaranteed to last a long time, get a LEXUS! Our RX300 is pretty much a beater and is absolutely great. It runs smooth, it is very easy to drive, and has SUCH a smooth and comfortable ride. If you want to go with the Germans (Audi, BMW, and MB), they will offer a better drive (BMW the best among the three, Audi the next, and MB the third, but MB is the most luxurious), but you pay the price of the problems that come with them.

xLibelle · Oct 14, 2004

i'm just gonna speak one bit about this - i like my e30 and probably wont buy any other bmw, but i respect what they stand for. Mercedes is a much more comfortable ride than any equivalent bmw. im not saying that it handles better or is as fun to drive, im just saying that the mercedes has a more luxurious feel.

About the new models, ive seen the new S class coming out soon and that thing is SMOKING HOT. It does for Mercedes what Bangle tried to make the 7 for BMW. It is very different, but its amazing how well it all works. The other models, i will have to see to believe, but i think Mercedes enthusiasts have something to look forwad to... unlike the bmw peeps.

iDriveguy · Oct 14, 2004

Blah, Blah, Blah

Blah, Blah, Blah

Buy what you like, drive what you want, live as you chose!

It's what makes you happy that matters - not the opinions of a columnist.

Cheers for now then! [:)]

MrElussive · Oct 14, 2004

xLibelle, good post, great points.

iDriveguy, good points as well! How are those VW's w/TDI motors treating you? The VW TDI engine is so appealing to me: great gas mileage, super reliable, lasts for a long time, and superb torque.

aNoodle · Oct 14, 2004

I consider myself the ultimate bmw enthusiast...but I've been battered by the Bangle abominations. I could always take solace in knowing my car was a classic. But now I'm having automatic transmission problems at 125,000 miles and I'm pissed and sore. Damn BMW for using GM transmissions!!!!! I take back all my jokes about Mercedes just being Chrysler's now and Audi's just being dressed up People Cars. I have a freaking GM transmission, made out of cow manure, running BMW S0-CALLED "life-time" oil. What a freakin joke. I'm readying my wallet for a $4,500 ding. Yikes.

The optimist in me has my fingers crossed for vanHooydonk.

MrElussive · Oct 14, 2004

aNoodle said:

Yeah, but you KNOW that you <3 your BMW and BMW will be at the top of your list on your next purchase. I don't understand why everybody HATES the new designs SO much. I see multiple 7-series every day and they are not great-looking cars but they are okay. The new 6 has a nice front end, but the rear is awful. The new 5, holy shit man, granted I had to get used to it, I love seeing them on the road now. Whenever they are "in motion" they just look so freaking sporty, I don't know why....maybe I just see the cars differently than you guys do. I would rather have a new 5-Series than the Z8, honestly....the new 5 is just too hot...once you recognize the sportiness of it and get used to the look, it is definitely pretty hot. But then again, whenever I see a nice E39 540i Sport Package, it makes my jaw drop.

What pisses me off the most is that many people are dissatisfied with this new look and BMW is just sticking to Bangle. Well it's not what Captain Idiot (Bangle) likes, it's what the CONSUMERS like.

Average Jae · Oct 15, 2004

funny thing about bangleized designs is that most of the car designer friends that i spoke to all like it. these guys are looking few years ahead of the curb, and bangle just maybe too early for his time; esp since bmw had such classic lines, before he came aboard. radical changes will upset traditionalists.

and if you stick to the formula that worked for you few years back, you'll pretty much be standing still. sometimes you have to take radical risks. it may or may not payoff in the long run, but there is always the next gen.

emile even tho i agree w/ you to some degree, here's what i heard at BMW driving school: "BMW doesn't make cars that consumers like, we make cars that we like, and hopefully in turn consumers would like them just as much as we do. we are selfish like that." they can say that and act that way because they always have done it that way, and apparently their attitiude isn't hurting their pocketbooks. besides BMWs are the "ultimate driving machines" and i can't remember last time car handled less because it looked "funny" it's better than everyone and their mother rolling in a bimmer imo. (that said, i'm still warming up to the e60..) ^^;;

iDriveguy · Oct 15, 2004

Yo Mr. "E"...

I LOVE my TDI's one has 87,000mi (Yes, as in THOUSAND) and the other has 65,000.
Both are 2002 model year and I have had not a single problem. Albeit I have religiously completed every scheduled service listed in the maintenance book and I drive rather conservatively in them.

I drive 115mi. RT every day. My average fuel consumption is 43mpg (sometimes 45 lowest ever was 41). Plus diesel (in my area) is the least costly fuel presently.

I HIGHLY recommend over hybrid. Side note: Hybrid claims up to "52mpg". However that is based on city driving under 35mph where the battery takes over. Hybrids are not a wise choice for commuters or freeway driving like I do...

Cheers!

Section_8 · Oct 15, 2004

MrElussive said:

The consumers (if you believe the stock reports) are basically saying Bangle's designs are selling like hotcakes, so that's about as far as the CEO's of BMW are going to be concerned, you can believe that. They could give 2 cents what some younger BMW enthuesists (driving mostly older models) have to say. We are the folks that appreciate the cars the most, but we are also the least important consumers they have. That's just business - Germany, or the states it doesn't matter. Is it selling? - Yes. Is it increasing the profit of the shareholders? - Yes. End of story, Corporate wins again.

It's human nature to be weary, or dislike things that are different. (ala thousands of years of racism and bigotry written into the history of humans in general..) When the E46 came out, people were BITCHING then about it, almost as much as the E90 (for most of the same reasons folks don't like/bitch about the E90). Well, 5 years after the release of the E46, it's considered one of the hottest sedan/coupe cars out there, and is the benchmark for other companies to compete with, performance, and appearance wise.

And then again, some folks just really 'don't' like it's appearance, it in some way upsets them. What can you do in that situation? What the BMW CEO's do, look at their stock price, and how many cars they are selling, which is up 15% btw. (3 series sales are DOWN 7%.. Amazing!), and then ignore the upset folks. You can't appeal to everyone when you are a VERY small % of the car market. You appeal to the folks that keep you in business. Rich folks buying badge cars, or well off folks that want performance. You don't appeal to the desires of teenagers. (And please don't take this wrong, I do realize there are alot of older folks that don't like the E90 - but the most complaining I see on the various BMW forums IS coming from those 'first time' Kids who have a E36/E46, and think it's the best piece of sheet metal that ever existed..).

Average Jae · Oct 15, 2004

i thought BMW was a private company? [scratch]

Sorry to say BMW, but it's time to pull your head out and save yourself.

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