Long distance remote operation - check this out
- Thread starter bmwrocks
- Start date
yeah, there is no way a car remote will work more than 50 yards away, regardless of the position of the remote and car. those remotes use very small batteries....usually only a few volts. radio signals need at least one watt of power to get say 150 yards, and those batteries doubtedly produce but a few mW.
this is interesting. i couldnt say for sure how this would work...but i know someone who i think can explain it, i'll see if i cant get an asnwer from him, or get him over here to post a reply to your questions.
this is interesting. i couldnt say for sure how this would work...but i know someone who i think can explain it, i'll see if i cant get an asnwer from him, or get him over here to post a reply to your questions.
Ahhh... Seriously. It's impossible!!! Radio waves don't work like the waves in an ocean!!!! You cant have radio waves 'pick up' other radio waves, and carry them like that. And, a cellphone doesnt work like you think. The signal doesnt go from cellphone -> tower -> tower 2 -> tower 3 -> etc. -> other cellphone.... It goes Cellphone -> tower -> carrier's systems/servers/etc. -> tower -> cellphone.
If this theory was true, I could have a friend in california hold their cellphone up to a radio transmitter for FM radio broadcasting to 100.00 FM, and i could tune into that station if I held my cellphone up to MY radio tuned to 100.00 FM. Absolutely impossible.
The only way this could work is if the cellphones themselves had some kind of radio reciever that could recieve a signal from a remote, send it in a form that can be transmitted over the carrier's systems (digitally I might add... as most cellphones are digital now and the phone company's transmit voice over computer systems now), and then the other person's cellphone would have to have a radio transmitter that is capable of transmitting that same singal at the same frequency.
If this theory was true, I could have a friend in california hold their cellphone up to a radio transmitter for FM radio broadcasting to 100.00 FM, and i could tune into that station if I held my cellphone up to MY radio tuned to 100.00 FM. Absolutely impossible.
The only way this could work is if the cellphones themselves had some kind of radio reciever that could recieve a signal from a remote, send it in a form that can be transmitted over the carrier's systems (digitally I might add... as most cellphones are digital now and the phone company's transmit voice over computer systems now), and then the other person's cellphone would have to have a radio transmitter that is capable of transmitting that same singal at the same frequency.
![[boxface]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_boxface.gif "Box Face [boxface]"){kind=icon}
holy f*ck, is my post invisible or something. ...even though i explained it in theory with some experience and scientific background and in lamens terms... some of you still think its supposed to work some OTHER way. and then jszar talks about getting someone to explain it.i swear, NO ONE listens to me!
I saw his posts. I believe I am still correct and until someone absolutely proves me wrong, my VERY educated response STILL stands.
I disagree with xlibelle - I don't care what classes he's taken. Lets assume the remotes work at 400mhz.
Super high quality speakers in either headphones (ie Sannheiser, Grado, etc.) and high end speakers (Polk, Infinity, etc.) typically have a range of ~20hz - 22,000 hz.
You're telling me some how that speaker will be able to make any kind of sound at 400,000,000hz (400mhz)?!?!?!?!? Okay, whatever. I'd REALLY like to know who the HELL Is building cellphones with speakers and microphones capable of that. Keep trying to prove me wrong - but there's no way its going to work. It'd be more likely to work over a direct radio communication, like CB radio becuase your conversation goes through many servers and different computers at the phone company. You think they're going to waste their bandwidth (yes bandwidth isn't just the internet) alllowing ONLY between 400 - 3400hz of audible frequencies.
If you don't believe me I'll start slapping some mad sources in your faces. [fake]
I disagree with xlibelle - I don't care what classes he's taken. Lets assume the remotes work at 400mhz.
Super high quality speakers in either headphones (ie Sannheiser, Grado, etc.) and high end speakers (Polk, Infinity, etc.) typically have a range of ~20hz - 22,000 hz.
You're telling me some how that speaker will be able to make any kind of sound at 400,000,000hz (400mhz)?!?!?!?!? Okay, whatever. I'd REALLY like to know who the HELL Is building cellphones with speakers and microphones capable of that. Keep trying to prove me wrong - but there's no way its going to work. It'd be more likely to work over a direct radio communication, like CB radio becuase your conversation goes through many servers and different computers at the phone company. You think they're going to waste their bandwidth (yes bandwidth isn't just the internet) alllowing ONLY between 400 - 3400hz of audible frequencies.
If you don't believe me I'll start slapping some mad sources in your faces. [fake]
Audio frequency information passing thru a microphone or speaker is an electrical signal. Even if the speaker or mic could reproduce this frequency (which they can't - besides the physical mass issues, the speaker, basically an inductor, will look like an open circuit at frequencies that high) it STILL would be an electrical signal, NOT an RF modulated signal. It would generate a VERY small amount of RF NOISE, but not a modulated RF signal.
The bottom line is that the car's remote receiver is only going to respond to an RF modulated signal at a specific frequency with the digital unlock code imposed on that RF signal. As I said before, for this experiment to have ANY chance of working, it has to all occur using RF signals and sloppy electronics. Even then, it would be SO unlikely the odds are astronomical.
A practical example of sloppy electronics: Did you ever notice that with a cheap radio, if you are very close to the transmitter, you pick up the station on multiple dial settings? Now, with really sloppy cell phone electronics and remote receiver electronics, you could make an argument that it might work (techie terms: hetrodyning at one or multiple IF frequencies), but highly unlikely. And certainly not through the complete, complex cell phone ground network.
I don't pretend to be an expert at this, I am certainly NOT, but having a degree in EE and being a licensed and active amateur radio operator, I do know a few things about electronics and RF.
The bottom line is that the car's remote receiver is only going to respond to an RF modulated signal at a specific frequency with the digital unlock code imposed on that RF signal. As I said before, for this experiment to have ANY chance of working, it has to all occur using RF signals and sloppy electronics. Even then, it would be SO unlikely the odds are astronomical.
A practical example of sloppy electronics: Did you ever notice that with a cheap radio, if you are very close to the transmitter, you pick up the station on multiple dial settings? Now, with really sloppy cell phone electronics and remote receiver electronics, you could make an argument that it might work (techie terms: hetrodyning at one or multiple IF frequencies), but highly unlikely. And certainly not through the complete, complex cell phone ground network.
I don't pretend to be an expert at this, I am certainly NOT, but having a degree in EE and being a licensed and active amateur radio operator, I do know a few things about electronics and RF.
Guys, I am not trying to say it actually works, just saying proving other points wrong. Kirby, I know you have a lot of knowledge behind your belt so I will be proving eric wrong using your knowledge. Tell me this, aren't audio waves that we here are the same as radio waves radios get? Just at completely different frequency? I mean, it is not like eric said, waves in the ocean and waves we hear, its all the same just different frequency. Also, Kirby, you said it will make RF noise, just not a modulated signal, so eric, in YOUR FACE, you said any kind of sound, noise is as much of sound as you talking. Also, eric if you don't know, a microphone can also be used as a speaker and a speaker can also be used as a microphone. Neither will be any good at the over but it actually will do something, Kirby, correct me if I am wrong with that point. Also, eric, light waves and sound waves are two different things, like if you have waves in your car's body, doesn't mean you can surf on them. So anyway, I am not trying to say that the whole thing will work, just making eric loose his face with his "knowledge".
Also, Kirby, I absolutely agree with you that it is impossible for the microphone ot pic up that sound and then for the speaker to output it, in that application of course. And another thing, I wasn't saying that you were pretending to be an expert on it, I was implying that eric was. I mean, read his post over, he tries to sound like he actually knows the technology that goes behind the stuff. Sorry dude (Eric) for this whole thing, I was never as serious as you got with your last few posts, lighten up a little bit, this is not your life (at least I hope its not), its just a way to pass time, why be so tense about it.
Also, Kirby, I absolutely agree with you that it is impossible for the microphone ot pic up that sound and then for the speaker to output it, in that application of course. And another thing, I wasn't saying that you were pretending to be an expert on it, I was implying that eric was. I mean, read his post over, he tries to sound like he actually knows the technology that goes behind the stuff. Sorry dude (Eric) for this whole thing, I was never as serious as you got with your last few posts, lighten up a little bit, this is not your life (at least I hope its not), its just a way to pass time, why be so tense about it.
What does it matter? You guys can be write or wrong all day long and if it works, it just works. For example, scientifically, a dog can learn only 30 commands. But I'm sure there are tons of dogs out there that can exceed that "limit". My point is that science is proven hypothesies and scientists are proven wrong all the time. epj3 linked us to that article that addresses the e-mail. The guy just stated factually, how it's impossible, but he didn't even try it. The guy who wrote the article can argue his point all day long using factual information, but unless he actually ran an unbiased experiment, his conclusion on the issue is worthless (to me at least).
I don't think anybody here has made any stupid posts (in this thread, hehe). I'm not trying to prove any particular person right or wrong, nor do I mind being challenged. That's the way we all learn, and I'm hopefully providing some useful info that some people are interested in for the sake of knowledge or understanding.
Audio waves and radio waves are fundamentally different. An audio signal can exist in a circuit/wire, or in the air or water as rapid vibrations of the air molecules when converted by the speaker to sound. A radio wave, in a circuit/wire or in the air, is a rapid vibration of an electromagnetic wave, which admittedly is a difficult, intangible concept.
Think of it this way, we know that we can hear in the air, and water to a lesser degree, but we can't hear in a vacuum ("In outer space no one can hear you scream" as the movie ad said). But radio signals pass thru the air, and also thru a vacuum as proven by our spacecraft. Just as the speaker "launches" the audio wave into the air, the antenna "launches" the RF energy into the electromagnetic spectrum. They are both waves with a particular frequency, but that's prettty much were the similarity ends.
Another "angle" to consider is that people do actually communicate via radio signals at what we typically think of as audio frequencies - 20 hz - 25 khz or so. There are radio frequency transmissions this low, but we don't hear them (good thing!) because we can't detect the radio waves with our ears. The military actually uses this technology for certain types of communications.
For an unusual look at people playing with VLF/ELF/ULF (Very/Extremely/Ultra Low Frequency) radio, check out this - http://www.vlf.it/
For example, here is a link to an article about the Russians using 82 hz RF signals for submarine communications. http://www.vlf.it/zevs/zevs.htm
Sorry, I've probably put a lot of people to sleep by now......
Audio waves and radio waves are fundamentally different. An audio signal can exist in a circuit/wire, or in the air or water as rapid vibrations of the air molecules when converted by the speaker to sound. A radio wave, in a circuit/wire or in the air, is a rapid vibration of an electromagnetic wave, which admittedly is a difficult, intangible concept.
Think of it this way, we know that we can hear in the air, and water to a lesser degree, but we can't hear in a vacuum ("In outer space no one can hear you scream" as the movie ad said). But radio signals pass thru the air, and also thru a vacuum as proven by our spacecraft. Just as the speaker "launches" the audio wave into the air, the antenna "launches" the RF energy into the electromagnetic spectrum. They are both waves with a particular frequency, but that's prettty much were the similarity ends.
Another "angle" to consider is that people do actually communicate via radio signals at what we typically think of as audio frequencies - 20 hz - 25 khz or so. There are radio frequency transmissions this low, but we don't hear them (good thing!) because we can't detect the radio waves with our ears. The military actually uses this technology for certain types of communications.
For an unusual look at people playing with VLF/ELF/ULF (Very/Extremely/Ultra Low Frequency) radio, check out this - http://www.vlf.it/
For example, here is a link to an article about the Russians using 82 hz RF signals for submarine communications. http://www.vlf.it/zevs/zevs.htm
Sorry, I've probably put a lot of people to sleep by now......
I agree with Mr. E as far as the experiment goes. I knew it shouldn't work, but I tried anyhow. Why not? After all, the remote control chin thing sounds totally like crap, but we have tried it and many have seen, including me, that it actually DOES extend the distance.
SO - who else has tried EITHER ONE, and what are your results?
SO - who else has tried EITHER ONE, and what are your results?
i'll remember to try this next time we're drunk at the parking lot outside the bar.. thanks for the post, and fun experiment to try
holy f*ck, is my post invisible or something. ...
i swear, NO ONE listens to me!
look... i dont even care anymore. F you!
not w/ that attitude, invisible man ![[:p]](/images/smilies/tongue.png "Stick Out Tongue [:p]")
i read your post, understood it, (was a telecom major) and played connect the dots w/ the homebrew cb.. (since i wasn't a ee major..)but honestly, dood, you have 1000+ post on this board, didn't you realize that no one, really "reads" other people's posts? ![[:D]](/images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin [:D]")
xLibelle said:
holy f*ck, is my post invisible or something. ...i swear, NO ONE listens to me!
i read your post, understood it, (was a telecom major) and played connect the dots w/ the homebrew cb.. (since i wasn't a ee major..)but honestly, dood, you have 1000+ post on this board, didn't you realize that no one, really "reads" other people's posts? Ooops, I guess I was way off, hehehe. Sorry eric. Oh well, just like Kirby said, we learn this way.
MrE you are absolutely right, theory and reality are two different things. I remember people would tell me, they went to a school for years and once they get to a job site the first thing old workers tell them is forget everything you learned in school. Besides, if we had all aspects of everything covered, we would have learned how to reach the speed of light so we can travel through time.
MrE you are absolutely right, theory and reality are two different things. I remember people would tell me, they went to a school for years and once they get to a job site the first thing old workers tell them is forget everything you learned in school. Besides, if we had all aspects of everything covered, we would have learned how to reach the speed of light so we can travel through time.
