help me put this mustang cowboy in his place!

[Heresy]

alright, my roomate is a mustang driver and enthusiast. nothing wrong with that. but he's been going onto stangnet and reading up on the new svt cobra's. so he comes to me today and talks about how they supposedly are going to use the 3 series suspension, and he's been gloating about how they are trying to take on the bmw M's. i usually just shrug it off, but now he's starting to talk about horsepower, weight distribution, all this crap that is getting under my skin, and i really wanna get some facts to straighten him out. i know the fact of the matter is that a stupid svt cobra isnt going to handle like a fricken m3. im sorry, i just REFUSE to accept that a mustang will be in germany tearing through the turns better than an M series.

i need ammo. gimmie something to flame him with so he doesnt wanna park his GT next to my beautiful 328i in the driveway for a week. thanks guys

 

[brahtw8]

I suppose you could rib him about the previous generation SVT Cobra and the missing horsepower.

Or the fact that the current Mustang still rides on the POS fox-body platform that made its debut in 1979.

The Mustang does not use a BMW 3 series suspension. I think what he is talking about is that they finally have gone to an independent rear suspension (IRS).

With 390 hp. on tap, the 03+ SVT Cobra has decent straight line speed. With its hefty weight, it runs around 4.8-5.0 seconds to sixty and a low 13 quarter mile. Basically equal in speed to a current M3.

However, the Mustang does not handle well in stock form. Put it on a road course and the M3 will walk away from it.

I did one driving school with a 2003 SVT Cobra in my group (along with M3s, 911s, etc.). I let the Mustang by my NSX once when he was gaining on the straights. As soon as we hit some turns, I was all over him and passed him shortly thereafter. I left him and didn't see him again, as the NSX was taking the corners at much higher speeds.

So, you could tell him that a 13 year old car (for a 91 NSX, mine is a 93) with a normally aspirated 3.0 liter V6 making 120 less horsepower than his beloved SVT will embarass it on a road course and just about hang with it in a straight line (shorter gears or a later 3.2 liter would be equal or faster in a straight line). And, the Cobra costs as much or more than a used NSX.

Or you could just ask him to sit in it and play match the shiny plastic pieces.

 

[flashinthepan]

help me put this mustang cowboy in his place!

Mustangs = Old technology + they are Fugly !!!!

Be Careful though his big motor on a skateboard will most likely take you in a straight line.

 

[Heresy]

Mustangs = Old technology + they are Fugly !!!!

Be Careful though his big motor on a skateboard will most likely take you in a straight line.

im not racing him. ive always been humble about the straight line racing talk. im not into that. otherwise id have bought a vette and all he could do is s.t.f.u. but when he talks about taking turns, road courses, trying to say a mustang cobra svt is all of a sudden better than an M series car handeling on a REAL track, im sorry, but im gonna have to retort.

 

[flashinthepan]

The new 2005 Mustang

Its unbearably Fugly !!! OMG that pony is going to be resting soundly quite soon,

 

[Bimmubishi]

Well, i think that you're in trouble here because the cars are almost identical.

While I really like the new M3 I would take a Cobra any day.

Cobra skidpad .90G
E46 M3 skidpad .90G

Cobra curb weight-3430 lbs
M3 Curb Weight-3415 lbs

For under 1000 dollars another 100hp can be had from the Cobra making it a faster car. BMW is all about electronic features now. The evolution of cars, even the M cars is toward lulxury. That's clearly the wrong direction for increased performance.

If the cobra is "Old" technology, then BMW's "new" technology sucks. Furthermore, while Brahw8 says that the car gets beat at the track, well that could be the driver too.

 

[flashinthepan]

Here is your 2005 dream pony

 

[brahtw8]

Furthermore, while Brahw8 says that the car gets beat at the track, well that could be the driver too.

Certainly true.

However, take a look at Speed GT, Grand Am, ALMS or SCCA racing and I think you'll find that equal drivers need a lot of horsepower in a Mustang based race car to equal an M3-based race car, which also has a lot more power than stock, but less than the 'stang when both are in race trim, say 400-450 for the M3, 500-550 for the 'stang.

 

[carcus]

Here is your 2005 dream pony

I think it looks pretty sharp and some nice tradition for a muscle car.

It is not supposed to be a BMW.

 

[brahtw8]

Here is your 2005 dream pony

Not something that will ever reside in my garage, but certainly a marked improvement over its predecessor, and FINALLY A NEW PLATFORM. It only took 26 years.

 

[flashinthepan]

I think it looks pretty sharp and some nice tradition for a muscle car.

Respect your opinion -

To me its a big step even further backwards

Oh well

[???1]

 

[Wadula]

Actually i really do like the 2005 styling. getting back to the good looking days. i like that sharp and aggressive look.

does anyone have some reliable track times? that would be best to stop him talking.

 

[Kirby]

This month's Motor Trend has reviews on the new 'Stang and the new 'Vette. It's worth a read.

The 'Stang will have EITHER a solid (low end) OR Independent (SVT/Cobra?) rear axle.

BMW is going to have to address the HP issue or lose M3 US sales, like it or not. 400 - 500 hp is going to be the requirement to play in the market.

 

[bahnstormer]

have u ever looked at the interior of a cobra?
i glanced at my car mag pile and saw this

cobra vs g35 vs RX8 - i think it was car n driver

the cobra was last place, they said best mustang ever
g35 2nd place and RX8 was first.

the RX8 wasn't the fastest of the group, but ran circles
around the stang.


i'm sorry but stock stangs get no respct from me.
a nice wel modified one is scary in a good way,
but stock they r a pos

 

[Wadula]

the rx-8 just recently got killed in a test by a 330i (limousine!!!!)

performance wise, space wise and costs wise. the mazda made some 15 mpg and less in daily traffic. even in the dynamics and driving section the 330i was better. now how does that go with the cobra as it was tested last against the RX8?

 

[SoonerE39]

Tell him it's interesting that the Rustang is trying to become like a BMW but BMW isn't trying to become like a Rustang.[fake]

 

[SoonerE39]

BMW is going to have to address the HP issue or lose M3 US sales, like it or not. 400 - 500 hp is going to be the requirement to play in the market.

But Bimmer drivers are about handling, not strait line acceleration. A lot of people would still love to have an E30 M3. Damn fast around a tack, but not so much so in a strait line. I could care less if some other car is faster than mine in a strait line. I prefer to look for curves.

 

[Beemerworld]

BMW's are build for European roads and autobahn high speed stability. When you are driving to work, you are not doing 400 meter races. You take turns and going....

You don't compare cars like that. BMW's are kings in high speeds but they have also great acceleration compare to others. Mustang will do 400 meters in 13s+ but it will only reach 165mph top speed. The Corvette is not much faster.

There are some people in Europe who likes This kinds of cars but they are no match for BMW, Mercedes or Audi.

Mustang or Whatever it is will always be a cheap car. The concept and the first pruduct always looks good but after they start production for general public its made as cheapest it can be.

 

[codex57]

Plus, the interior of a Mustang is generally regarded as a penalty box. Course, what do you expect from a 26 year old platform. The new 2005 version sounds like a big step up though.

 

[KaPPaBaLL]

alright, my roomate is a mustang driver and enthusiast. nothing wrong with that. but he's been going onto stangnet and reading up on the new svt cobra's. so he comes to me today and talks about how they supposedly are going to use the 3 series suspension, and he's been gloating about how they are trying to take on the bmw M's. i usually just shrug it off, but now he's starting to talk about horsepower, weight distribution, all this crap that is getting under my skin, and i really wanna get some facts to straighten him out. i know the fact of the matter is that a stupid svt cobra isnt going to handle like a fricken m3. im sorry, i just REFUSE to accept that a mustang will be in germany tearing through the turns better than an M series.

i need ammo. gimmie something to flame him with so he doesnt wanna park his GT next to my beautiful 328i in the driveway for a week. thanks guys

just ignore it. No way the 03 cobra is going to even compare to the M3's in handling characteristics unless it was heavily modified. Stock for stock there is no question. I don't even know why SVT put IRS in the cobra should've stayed with the live axle like the current GT's and Machs. Trust me take it from a stang driver.