GM Says It May Kill Off One of Its Brands

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DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp., which issued a shock profit warning last week and has been losing market share, may phase out one of its weaker car brands if sales fail to meet projections, company Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said on Wednesday.

GM's Buick and Pontiac are both "damaged brands" due to lack of investment over the years, and GM is working to correct that with an array of new vehicles coming to market, Lutz told a Morgan Stanley automotive conference in New York.

But if some of its brands fail to meet sales projections, "then we would have to take a look at a phase-out. I hope we don't have to do that. What we've got to do is keep the brands we've got."

Financial analysts have said for years that the world's largest automaker has too many brands to support, even with the gradual phase-out of the Oldsmobile brand a few years ago, particularly with its weaker U.S. sales.


Sales for both Pontiac and Buick have lagged in recent years. But GM is in the midst of a $3 billion investment in new vehicles for Buick, and Pontiac showrooms and they will have four new vehicles this year, including the Solstice roadster, Torrent SUV and the G6 mid-size coupe.


GM, which last week cut its earnings outlook for 2005 by as much as 80 percent, posted a 6 percent drop in U.S. sales for the first two months of the year. GM's U.S. market share fell to about 25 percent, far below its share of 27.5 percent for all of 2004.


Analysts said last week that GM's March sales could fall as much as 10 percent in March, while foreign automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp., Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd. and Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. would continue to gain U.S. market share.


Lutz said GM will post relatively flat U.S. sales for March, however, performing much better than expected.


"I think we're going to be just about even, our best guess at this point. Either a percent over or a percent under," he said. "It is a substantially better month than January or February, and it looks like the whole industry is up."


"A HUGE ALBATROSS"


No details about an expected restructuring at GM, the largest private U.S. provider of health care, have emerged since it roiled markets with its warning last week.


But the company, which has about $300 billion in outstanding debt, said on Wednesday it was in talks to sell a stake in its GMAC Commercial Mortgage unit after potential investors expressed interest in the unit.


And Lutz and Gary Cowger, GM's president for North America, spoke of possible demands for a cut in mounting health care benefits for the company's hourly union employees in remarks on the sidelines of the New York auto show on Wednesday.


An elimination of any one of GM's brands would likely mean plant closings and a shrinking of GM's hourly work force.


"An across-the-board competitive health care plan for salaried and hourly employees could literally save us billions," Cowger said. Health care costs, added Lutz, are "a huge albatross hanging over American industry today."


Lutz particularly acknowledged that the automaker, which will struggle to make a profit this year, faces challenges. But he said GM was "taking the necessary step to right this ship."


"Sure, we face short-term challenges, and this is not going to be a banner year," he said. "It's a difficult period of adjustment. But we will get through it."


He said some of GM's new cars, such as its Chevrolet Cobalt small car and the Pontiac G6 mid-size car, will post their best sales to date in March, and told the Morgan Stanley conference "I don't know where all the gloom and doom is coming from."


He quoted one car reviewer who said, referring to GM's troubles, that the quality of the Cobalt convinced him that "the Titanic may yet turn fast enough to miss the iceberg."

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news...5440002961051&dt=20050323154400&w=RTR&coview=
 

Big Daddy

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I heard that the Pontiac that Oprah gave away (the model escapes me at the moment) was not selling as well as they had predicted. I am not surprised, why does a manufacturer need 6 or more brands? I would put more eggs in fewer baskets.
 
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I say kill Buick. I know it's one of their few bright spots in terms of quality, but quality can be fixed. It's image isn't all that great. It's kinda superfluous as a luxury brand (Cadillac is there) and it'd be easier to promote sport in a brand that has more history in it like Pontiac.

Still, it all boils down to cars. They need good ones. Their new ones that they have high hopes for are merely decent. It can't be decent. It's gotta have some reason to pick it over the competition. For Nissan, the Altima and it's spinoffs were a great V6, size, and sportiness. It was finally a decent competitor to the Camry/Accord 800 pound gorillas. The G6 isn't all that special. They need to up the quality in the G6, give it a better engine (maybe a version of their V8) and then build other models off that platform to make more money.
 
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GMC does have to many brands. GMC truck would be a good one to go, they make identical trucks with Chevy. The othe one would be Buick as there is really no need to keep that brand. Seems that Chevy and Pontiac could fill that void. The top end Buick is basically a Cadillac anyway.

One thing they need to do is work on their designs. Some of the new one coming out are better but my goodness. GM just doesn't seem to have innovation in their designs. The Chevy's GMC Trucks and Buicks yikes. The Pontiacs are better. I like the new Cadillacs. No wonder they are stuggling.
 

bmw046series

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Kill GMC! That's the only profitable GM brand! Trucks & SUVs make money, they always have for car companies, I believe trucks are outselling cars 2 to 1 in the US for the last two years.

They got lazy and need something to spark each brand – THE 300C!

I read an article in BusinessWeek a while ago about how Americans are buying all these Asian cars (which is killing GM) and they looked at the trend in the long term and they felt within the next 5 to 7 years the trend is about to reverse full circle in a major way and shift more domestically the analyst at Bear Sterns sees some major consolidations are going to take place and the car companies are going to end up buying each other because the way they “cut-throat” compete with each other and labor costs are going to go up and so is the cost of the product and globally consumers aren’t going to react well to it because in the long run they will refuse to pay more for the cars because the global playing field is going to even out better. In fact the Pacific Rim cars are the reason why we have such a huge Trade Deficit! Kind of funny how that happens.

If GM wants to make more money, buy Toyota; buy the rest of the shares of KIA, Ford buys Honda, Daimler buys Nissan, and kill them off in 10 years - Good Bye competition and they won’t be a problem anymore.
 

bmw046series

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You know if they started now a good hostle take over we could have this done by the end of the year. In truth I believe the business law between the US and Japan is not as strick as it is with the EU, I know the deal between Merc anc Chrys was not easy to accomplish, but this could be an easy.
 
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pontiac G6 article

bmw046series said:
If GM wants to make more money, buy Toyota; buy the rest of the shares of KIA, Ford buys Honda, Daimler buys Nissan, and kill them off in 10 years - Good Bye competition and they won’t be a problem anymore.
try the other way around.. if it were possible..
not a problem anymore? more like good buy competition and hello shitty cars.
i'm hoping you were being sarcastic.
 

bmw046series

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No I'm not you see what I am proposing is an end to Asian car brands, a serious problem for European car brands because they compete unfairly by means of copied technology and design using cheap parts and then selling them cheaper (a $15,000 car cheaper). Toyota, Honda and Nissan can't afford to buy GM because of the Yen vs the Dollar, it will be GM who buys them, look at Ford and Mazda, I think Ford owns like half the company.
 

aNoodle

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bmw046series said:
No I'm not you see what I am proposing is an end to Asian car brands, a serious problem for European car brands because they compete unfairly by means of copied technology and design using cheap parts and then selling them cheaper (a $15,000 car cheaper). Toyota, Honda and Nissan can't afford to buy GM because of the Yen vs the Dollar, it will be GM who buys them, look at Ford and Mazda, I think Ford owns like half the company.
Come again? The dollar is at record all-time lows because of the trade imbalance and crazy pork-barrel deficit spending in Washington. The asian countries are single-handedly proping up their exchange rates with large purchases of dollars in the open markets. Even a hint that they may stop doing so has caused wild fluctuations (even weaker) in the dollar. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57440-2004Jan5.html

And how would a merger help GM with the fact that the doctor/hospital/drug/insurance health care industry keeps eating up more and more of our economy?
 

Bmw 325i 7803

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I think its time we tell the doctors enough is enough, put an end to their outrageous health care prices. Afterall, for their limited knowledge and reliability the price they charge is simply absurd.

Also, GM could never afford Toyota, Toyota is the number one automobile company in the world, with BMW coming in second...

If GM has to kill some brands, they should kill Buick which is like oldsmobile (OLD) or pontiac.
 
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A hostile takeover isn't easy. Particularly if shareholders are involved. Toyota/Honda shareholders would never approve of a union with GM or Ford. Toyota in particular has no reason to merge with GM. As it stands, if Toyota shareholders stand pat, there's a good chance GM could disappear on its own. Just look at the reserve cash each has. GM is in horrible shape. Plus, it's one step above junk status and if it drops, it may not be able to stay afloat. Ford's in a better position, but not by too much.

GM and Ford may be able to buy out the smaller Japanese companies just cuz they're so big, but those companies aren't much of a threat anyways. The big 3 Japanese (Toyota, Honda, & Nissan) are simply too big to be taken over. They're also too successful. Honda is the smallest of those 3 and has the best chance at being taken over, but I can't see how their shareholders could approve a merger with those two duds. Toyota could buy out GM and Ford b/c the GM/Ford shareholders would jump at such a chance if Toyota were crazy enough to do it. Nissan, the number 2 Jap brand I believe, already is owned by Renault so I doubt they're going anywhere. Which leaves Honda, but as I said before, their shareholders aren't stupid enough to merge when there's a good chance GM could die on its own.
 
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Bmw 325i 7803 said:
I think its time we tell the doctors enough is enough, put an end to their outrageous health care prices. Afterall, for their limited knowledge and reliability the price they charge is simply absurd.
If you want to lower healthcare costs, you need to talk to medical insurance companies, hospitals, and medical malpractice attorneys and malpractice insurance companies - that's where all the money is going (mainly the insurance companies). Only a fraction of the amount of money spent on healthcare in this country goes to the doctors and ultimately the care of the patient. There is so much overhead and waste in the healthcare system in this country. Don't blame the doctors - blame the system.

Plus, it's not the cost of healthcare that is killing GM - it's the UAW's stranglehold on GM that is killing GM. GM foolishly let the UAW gain control over the company. GM lineworkers make $90,000+ and pay NOTHING for their health insurance - GM pays the UAW employees' healthcare insurance premiums in full at 100%. That's what they are talking about when they say that the cost of healthcare is killing GM.
 

aNoodle

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Riiiiight....the health care industry keeps absorbing more and more of our GDP every year for the last 20 years because of unions and trial lawyers. No matter that unions have been in steady decline for decades and trial lawyers have recently been "tort reformed." They are the culprits nonetheless!?! That's why GM in the above article cites the $90,000/yr labor rates and law suits, not "health care?"

Apparently GM is backing off this idea of killing a brand.....http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102052 Maybe Lutz overspoke and got Wall Street all crazy.

I say they kill Buick and put the money into Pontiac.

Looks like we might get the baby Caddy too!!!!!! http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102014
 

Bmw 325i 7803

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jrt67ss350 said:
If you want to lower healthcare costs, you need to talk to medical insurance companies, hospitals, and medical malpractice attorneys and malpractice insurance companies - that's where all the money is going (mainly the insurance companies). Only a fraction of the amount of money spent on healthcare in this country goes to the doctors and ultimately the care of the patient. There is so much overhead and waste in the healthcare system in this country. Don't blame the doctors - blame the system.

Plus, it's not the cost of healthcare that is killing GM - it's the UAW's stranglehold on GM that is killing GM. GM foolishly let the UAW gain control over the company. GM lineworkers make $90,000+ and pay NOTHING for their health insurance - GM pays the UAW employees' healthcare insurance premiums in full at 100%. That's what they are talking about when they say that the cost of healthcare is killing GM.
I see it this way, sure I agree the medical system is one big bureaucracy and is beyond wasteful, but you have to admit that private practice doctors don't deserve $225 per sloppy visit. As for the medical malpractice insurance problem, I think if maybe the doctors would learn how to do their job right and spend the appropriate amount of time on each patient malpractice wouldn't be an issue. (MALpractice defines itself, and the culpable party is held liable as seen fit by the human jury.) As for insurance companies, everyone knows they exist to make a profit, and as soon as their profit curve fluctuates somewhat below expectations, they raise the doctors premiums. What needs to be done is the removal of for-profit healthcare in this country. If insurance companies and hospitals had a profit cap the cost of healthcare would decrease drastically, and if they don't like it the government can always pick it up...

As for GM, I heard earlier today their top exec specifically say the rumors of phasing out a brand were untrue. If the 90k+ a year salaries with free healthcare for lineworkers is really true then the execs at GM have clearly lost their minds.
 
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The main problem with health care is that the defensive medicine is costing millions and everytime you go to the doctor they need to issue a precription. Everyone wants the best health care but they do not want to pay for it. Can everyone one own a BMW? The problem is the system. Controls on law suits and having doctors more accountible for which tests they order (to many, do this test just to see) would go a long way towards fixing the problem. The whole system is a mess. people must take charge of their health care and not allow any test with out understanding it and also make sure they are sick before going.

As for GM employees, they must pay some cost of the health care. This should be a combination of the paying part of the premium and have hight deductibles. Without this contribution GM doesn't have a chance in controling the cost.

GM needs to consolidate brands. Buick probably needs to go. like I said before GMC, although profitable, is a mirror of chevy. Why have two totally identical management teams. Seems like a waste of money to me. By combining them the profits would even be greater for the Trucks and SUVs. Why make an envoy when you have a trailblazer. They are the same vehicle!
 

Bmw 325i 7803

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Steve, that "defensive medicine is costing millions" statement is baseless and sounds like a direct pull off of Bush's campaign wagon. Define defensive medicine and go on to explain how it is costing millions? Don't forget your not Bush and do not have the charisma to get out of this question with a "this is america we're the american people, " to which a clapping audience goes on to the next question. Don't tell me you're advocating that doctors should have "medical immunity and freedom" to do as they please, similar in nature to university professors "academic freedom". Also the doctor can issue a prescription but you don't need to fill it or pressure him/her into doing so.

From what I understand GMC has better QC than Chevy and whether this is true or not, it is a popular preception count consumer reports in on it. [thumb]
 
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If you want to lower malpractice insurance premiums, one way would be get the medical associations that license doctors to publicly announce like the top 3% of doctors who have claims filed against them. The second thing you need to do is take away incentive for trial lawyers to file claims. Cap punitives and put a real small cap on punitives for cases that don't result in serious death/injury. W/out that giant windfall of punitives, less lawyers would take on those little cases and try and milk the insurance co. Notice, actual medical damages weren't capped meaning the pt gets what she actually suffered.
 
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#20
Bmw 325i 7803 said:
I see it this way, sure I agree the medical system is one big bureaucracy and is beyond wasteful, but you have to admit that private practice doctors don't deserve $225 per sloppy visit. As for the medical malpractice insurance problem, I think if maybe the doctors would learn how to do their job right and spend the appropriate amount of time on each patient malpractice wouldn't be an issue. (MALpractice defines itself, and the culpable party is held liable as seen fit by the human jury.) As for insurance companies, everyone knows they exist to make a profit, and as soon as their profit curve fluctuates somewhat below expectations, they raise the doctors premiums. What needs to be done is the removal of for-profit healthcare in this country. If insurance companies and hospitals had a profit cap the cost of healthcare would decrease drastically, and if they don't like it the government can always pick it up...

As for GM, I heard earlier today their top exec specifically say the rumors of phasing out a brand were untrue. If the 90k+ a year salaries with free healthcare for lineworkers is really true then the execs at GM have clearly lost their minds.
I hate to persist with the off topic discussion, but I feel compelled to respond to your comments.

If you have a doctor that is charging you $255 for an office visit that is "sloppy," then I suggest you find yourself another doctor. The problem with medical malpractice in this country is that no one wants to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong. People seem to forget that doctors are human and CANNOT POSSIBLY know everything there is to know about the body, about every possible disease, about every possible outcome of taking some medication, etc. People in this country expect their doctor to FIX them without any other potential dangers or side effects. When people aren't FIXED without other problems or their HUMAN doctor misses something, then it is instantly the doctor's fault who quickly gets a legal lynch mob released on him/her. It's not a matter of doctors learning to do their job right. Doctors who are trained in this country have some of the best medical training available in the world. My school does an excellent job of teaching doctors "how to do their job right." The problem is that people EXPECT the field of medicine to be perfect and so technologically advanced that NO MISTAKE CAN EVER POSSIBLY BE MADE. Well, I have news for you - the medical field is FAR from perfect, and our knowledge of the workings of the body and disease is FAR FAR FROM COMPLETE. But, people don't want to realize this - they want to feel that when they see their doctor, they are safe and they will be "cured." No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions - most of the disease that doctors deal with is self-inflicted (treating hypertension, cardiac disease, lung disease, diabetes, high cholesterol, stroke, etc) due to the long-term effects of bad personal habits (eating crap, smoking, drinking, being sedentary, etc). People just expect their doctors to fix what ails them - even if their problems are the result of their OWN bad habits. When reality hits, they feel like they have to blame someone else because people can't/don't take responsibility for their own actions. THAT, my friend, is the main problem with medicine in this country. THAT, my friend, is why malpractice is ridiculous in this country. Instead of trying to get doctors to do more for less, why don't we concentrate on getting people to listen to their doctors, to take responsibility for their own habits and actions, to get people off their butts and actually do something about their own health instead of expecting doctors to fix it all for nothing. How 'bout that??????

MALpractice defines itself, and the culpable party is held liable as seen fit by the human jury.)
Give me a break!! Yes, malpractice theoretically should define itself, shouldn't it? But it doesn't in this country. Malpractice cases aren't decided by a jury in this country. It's something like 98-99% of malpractice cases in this country are settled out of court. The fact of the matter is that malpractice insurance companies DON'T WANT TO GO TO TRIAL!!! I've known several wonderfully fabulous doctors who have had malpractice cases brought against them, and in every case, the insurance company encouraged the doctor to just let the insurance company settle it even if the insurance company AGREES that the doctor was not negligent. Trials are costly, and insurance companies don't want to screw with them. They'd rather just pay out the settlement and then raise the doctor's rates. THAT'S the way things really are.

What needs to be done is the removal of for-profit healthcare in this country. If insurance companies and hospitals had a profit cap the cost of healthcare would decrease drastically, and if they don't like it the government can always pick it up...
Yeah, that's what we need - more governmental involvement in health care. More spending on the part of the government, more regulations. I agree, the system is a freakin mess, and something really needs to be done. I don't know what that "something" is, but I CAN'T STAND IT when the doctors get blamed for the system's problems. Yes, the actions of the doctors back in the 70s and early 80s who were still trying to hang on to the "Golden Age of Medicine" have prompted the development of the current system, but it's certainly not the current doctors' fault. Yes, your doctor may submit a $255 bill to your insurance company for services rendered. However, let me tell you something - he/she is getting only a fraction of that in return. He/she gets even less if the patient in question has Medicare, and even less if the patient is a Medicaid patient. That's why so many doctors won't see new Medicaid patients - they simply can't afford to. Contrary to what you may think, the VAST MAJORITY of new doctors today are NOT going into medicine because of the money (myself included). The money simply isn't there anymore. People who go into medicine nowadays go into it because of their interest in medicine itself, and, pardon the cliche, to help people. I cannot think of anyone that would put themselves through the anguish of medical school and residency training for the money nowadays - there are easier ways to get to money. Besides, your average primary care physician (family practice, pediatrician, etc) makes somewhere around $130,000 (specialists obviously generally earn more depending on patient load and how much of a life outside of medicine they want to have). That certainly isn't outlandish, especially considering the amount and type of education that we endure and the fact that patients expect us to be available to them whenever they need us. Don't you think that the person responsible for your and your family's health should be well-paid and be rewarded for taking on that kind of responsibility (and not just the responsibility of your family's health, but also the health of thousands of other patients and families)? When you take into account the COSTS of being a doctor, that $130,000 gets whittled down. Malpractice insurance is outrageous - for some of the "riskier" (with respect to malpractice suits) fields like OB-GYN, malpractice insurance can approach $100k a year - it's $98,750 per year in CT (and that's if you have no suits brought against you in your past). Consider that I will graduate from medical school with $160,000 PRINCIPAL in debt from my 4 years of medical school. That would be in addition to the debts owed for my undergraduate school. My story is nearly identical to that of every other medical student in this country. You know, doctors just don't make as much as people think.

By the time I graduate from medical school (in two years) I will have borrowed enough money to buy two houses - but I will be living in a crappy rented apartment. There are better ways to get rich, and have a life while getting rich. Yes, the day will come when I will make more money than the $40k I will make during my residency (hopefully), but the money is not why people go into medicine nowadays. If you want to make money, there are much easier, much more life-friendly and family-friendly ways to do it.

Just don't sit here and tell ME that doctors need to learn to do their job right. IMO, for the most part, doctors do a DAMN fine job - if yours isn't, then get a new one. The patient needs to learn to do THEIR job right.
 


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