Bhp Or Torque???

[MrElussive]

No problem. The common misconception is that torque is even more important than horsepower and that horsepower is really just for advertising. This is not entirely true. When it comes to sports cars, horsepower is more important than torque. Remember that horsepower is for acceleration and torque is for power (the ability to accelerate, particularly under heavy load).

 

[gpoints]

This is a pretty good read on HP and Torque:
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/november98/torque.shtml

Horsepower = torque*RPM/5252

HP is the amount of power at a specific point (RPM) where torque is more the rate of acceleration. Check out the article, pretty easy to follow and interesting IMO.

 

[MrElussive]

That's a good guide, but I don't like the guy's explanation of torque. He says that torque is the rate of acceleration/speed changing but that's just not true. Take the 2004 Honda S2000, it's packing 240hp and 162 torque. It's that 240hp that gets it to 60mph in a brisk 5.9 (or less) seconds, but it's that lack of torque that requires you to downshift a gear or two as soon as you start going up a hill.

Torque is helpful to sports cars when let's say you wanna race someone on the highway and you both lineup and downshift to 3rd gear @ 60mph. Then when it's time to GO, you floor it and the car has that initial "kick". If both cars have similar horsepower but one car has more torque, the car with more torque is going to have an initial jump.

Horsepower is actually a measurement based on a horse's power to pull something in a certain amount of time (which is directly related to acceleration) whereas torque is a measurement of power at the wheels.

 

[gpoints]

TTake the 2004 Honda S2000, it's packing 240hp and 162 torque. It's that 240hp that gets it to 60mph in a brisk 5.9 (or less) seconds, but it's that lack of torque that requires you to downshift a gear or two as soon as you start going up a hill.

Yes, but that 240 hp is reached at what RPM? HP is a function of torque.
Remember: Horsepower = torque*RPM/5252

What I'm saying is HP is dependant upon torque. Plug a zero into the formula to see what i mean.

The thing (force) that makes HP is the torque. Remember HP is power at specific point (RPM).

The point of the article is not which is better what exactly each is. IMO, because HP is created as a result of torque and without torque, there is no HP, torque is more important.

BTW, my physics is a bit rusty so I could be TOTALLY wrong here. But it sure is fun to discuss it.

 

[aNoodle]

So does my Honda lawn mower more rely on torque or horsepower?

Just kidding. If I have to learn any more about s2000 or vtec I think I'm going to

 

[gpoints]

So does my Honda lawn mower more rely on torque or horsepower?

In a word, Yes.

Now, my craftsman mower relys more on my beer consumption as I only cut the lawn AFTER I've had a few.

 

[MrElussive]

gpoints, but when you apply torque to cars, its importance depends on the car and the situation, that's why it's so hard to discuss and the whole hp and torque deal with cars can never be conclusive.

Horsepower is much more important than torque when it comes to acceleration. Take the M3 vs the G35 Coupe for example. The M3 has a maxmimum torque rating of 262 @ 4900rpm and 333hp. The G35 Coupe has 270 torque @ 4800rpm and 280hp. The G35 Coupe has more torque than the M3, but it's not faster. Torque is not so important with sports cars because they need horsepower (for acceleration) not torque, which is just raw power.

If you look at SUV's and particularly pickup trucks, you'll see that most of their engines have more torque than horsepower, because those vehicles need the power of torque to move those heavy beasts (and whatever they're towing) around town. Torque gives those vehicles the power to accelerate under heavy load, but it's horsepower that really determines the rate of acceleration. A good example of this is the Toyota Land Cruiser/Lexus LX470. It has only a 235hp V8 but the engine is pushing out 320 foot pounds of torque and it's a 5,400 pound vehicle. Its acceleration is very slow, but no matter what the conditions are (uphill, towing a boat, etc.), it always has the power to accelerate but its low horsepower doesn't allow it to accelerate fast.

When it comes to cars, horsepower is what you see (meaning you see the speedo going up) and torque is what you feel (meaning if a car has a lot of torque it will push you back in your seat).

 

[gpoints]

gpoints, but when you apply torque to cars, its importance depends on the car and the situation, that's why it's so hard to discuss and the whole hp and torque deal with cars can never be conclusive.

Agreed.

Horsepower is much more important than torque when it comes to acceleration. Take the M3 vs the G35 Coupe for example. The M3 has a maxmimum torque rating of 262 @ 4900rpm and 333hp. The G35 Coupe has 270 torque @ 4800rpm and 280hp. The G35 Coupe has more torque than the M3, but it's not faster. Torque is not so important with sports cars because they need horsepower (for acceleration) not torque, which is just raw power.

If you look at SUV's and particularly pickup trucks, you'll see that most of their engines have more torque than horsepower, because those vehicles need the power of torque to move those heavy beasts (and whatever they're towing) around town. Torque gives those vehicles the power to accelerate under heavy load, but it's horsepower that really determines the rate of acceleration. A good example of this is the Toyota Land Cruiser/Lexus LX470. It has only a 235hp V8 but the engine is pushing out 320 foot pounds of torque and it's a 5,400 pound vehicle. Its acceleration is very slow, but no matter what the conditions are (uphill, towing a boat, etc.), it always has the power to accelerate but its low horsepower doesn't allow it to accelerate fast.

When it comes to cars, horsepower is what you see (meaning you see the speedo going up) and torque is what you feel (meaning if a car has a lot of torque it will push you back in your seat).

I know what you're saying, I just have a different opinion. I'm playing the devil's advocate for Torque.

 

[epj3]

I have to agree with elussive (though I think more torque is more important than he thinks... without a lot of torque, you won't be able to get the thing moving in the first place.)

But gpoints, this really isn't an opinion thing -- it's more of a factual thing. I'm not saying that I'm right in what I'm saying (because I'd be happy if someone gave us all a link to the REAL answers....) but still...

 

[gpoints]

I have to agree with elussive (though I think more torque is more important than he thinks... without a lot of torque, you won't be able to get the thing moving in the first place.)

But gpoints, this really isn't an opinion thing -- it's more of a factual thing. I'm not saying that I'm right in what I'm saying (because I'd be happy if someone gave us all a link to the REAL answers....) but still...

I'm not quite sure how this could be anything but opinion given the original question of the thread:
"hey guys, there has always been arguements amongst people about bhp and torque, could you tell me which is the most important when it comes to performace???"

"What is most important when it comes to performance"? Even the word performance could be considered opinion.

Basically what I've been trying to show is what each is in terms of physics. Which is more important is up to you to decide. I've been saying that without torque you have no HP (Look at the formula to calc HP to see what I mean).

"You need torque to make HP" is all I'm really saying.

 

[Montana]

Panzer....that quote is some funny sh!t

 

[Montana]

It's simple right? It's like a bicycle. Torque is created by the gear ratios selected at any given time and HP is the size of the legs. It's the combination that makes the result. If you have 1000HP but floor it off the line in 6th gear, you aint going nowhere...but your gears are...the scrapyard.

I prefer a lot of both.