Are American Cars Really That Bad?

[jrt67ss350]

By the way, BMW has been using hemispherical heads for a very long time, if not forever. Nothing special other than its a much better head than GM's which is basically a block of steel with holes drilled in it for valves and spark plugs.

Now that's not true. The heads on the GM LS-1, LS-2, and LS-6 V8s are some of the highest flowing factory mass-production heads that have been produced. There is a ton of technology and R&D in those heads.

The Hemi head design was actually designed by Peugeot and Deusenberg way back when.

The fact that the Hemi head is "better" is debatable. Yeah, it has the potential to produce immense power if it's done right. Mainly because it was such a large combustion chamber that you could dump an incredible amount of air/fuel mixture into it and the compress the crap out of it with a huge, high-compression domed piston. However, the hemispherical head design is also the WORST design as far as emissions and fuel economy is concerned. One of the main reasons it died back in the gas crunch.

BMW has been using hemispherical heads forever? Ummmm, no. The spark plug has to be in the center of the combustion chamber and the combustion chamber has to be half of a sphere for it to be a true hemispherical head. That means that the combustion chamber looks like a perfectly round, smooth circular dome. The only BMWs that I am aware of having their sparkplug in the center are the newer DOHC heads, and the combustion chambers in those heads aren't hemispherical either. Just because the spark plug is in the center doesn't mean it's a hemi head. In that sense, the new Chrysler/Dodge "Hemi" engines AREN'T true Hemis, either. The labeling of these new engines as "Hemi's" is nothing more than marketing - the combustion chambers in the new "Hemi's" aren't hemispherical at all.

Plus, the new Hemi uses a speed density system instead of a mass air system for metering the intake air - that's crap. That's an even more primitive air-metering system than my '87 BMW has.

 

[bmw046series]

What about the fact that Japan only imports I think its somewhere around 5,000! cars into Japan a year, and they bring thousands of their "cars" here????

 

[jrt67ss350]

What about the fact that Japan only imports I think its somewhere around 5,000! cars into Japan a year, and they bring thousands of their "cars" here????

What about it? Is that really surprising to you?

 

[hosagod]

Haha...I think that's just because of the population difference (supply/demand) between the two countries...

 

[codex57]

What about the fact that Japan only imports I think its somewhere around 5,000! cars into Japan a year, and they bring thousands of their "cars" here????

Part of it's nationalism, part of it's supply and demand. Why would they import most of the product line that the American companies make? They're too big or crude to be in Japan. You gotta remember just how crowded their cities are. We buy an inordinate amount of cars from American companies, why shouldn't they buy inordinate amount of cars from their domestic manufacturers? The only difference is, their domestic brands produce really good products. Ours don't (with the exception of large trucks which the Japanese have very little use for). One of the few good American cars is the Chrysler 300. That thing just won't fit in Japan. It's WAYYY too big. They buy things the size of the Chevy Crapilier. American companies don't produce any decent small cars here cuz we don't want them here. The only good small cars are designed and sent to Europe where they have similar demands to the Japanese (minus the crazy electronics the Japanese want).

The Euro luxury marks don't have a problem in Japan. Their presence is growing. Mercedes dominated, but pretty much all of Asia prefers Mercedes over BMW. That's just the image thing.

 

[theBMWenthusiast]

Kirby, it's NOT a question of being good/bad, reliable/unreliable. Most of it is because they are extremely undesireable cars, and bad purchases. I think this is like the millionth 'quality/reliability' report posted here. It doesn't matter - also that is how many problems they have that owners report. I can tell you our van had a million rattles and squeaks, but my mom wasn't going to bother taking it in for that and living without a car for two days. People who buy american cars either put up with the problems, or simply expect them and don't think anything is out of the ordinary. A person who buys a BMW or mercedes will take it to the dealer for EVERY little thing. I can think of a few posts on this forum alone where people took their car to the dealer for a simple little rattle inside their car and had it fixed. I know I would have it fixed, too.

amazing point....

 

[Pete K]

I think you guys are reading into the Hemi thing a little too much...

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, Ford and GM (Opel) are profitable in Europe. I wonder if this is because they don't have the stigma of being unreliable cars because they were built better over there in Europe.

As far as styling of American cars go, sure they put out some boring cars but look at all the Camrys and Corollas Toyota has sold. If they're not bland/ugly, what is?

 

[hosagod]

As far as styling of American cars go, sure they put out some boring cars but look at all the Camrys and Corollas Toyota has sold. If they're not bland/ugly, what is?

Well, in my experience, most people that buy Japanese stay Japanese.

Very strong royalty, to the point of fanaticism...

These people don't even CONSIDER other brands when buying a replacement for their Camry/Corolla, it's usually a straight trip to the Toyota dealer!

 

[codex57]

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, Ford and GM (Opel) are profitable in Europe. I wonder if this is because they don't have the stigma of being unreliable cars because they were built better over there in Europe.

As far as styling of American cars go, sure they put out some boring cars but look at all the Camrys and Corollas Toyota has sold. If they're not bland/ugly, what is?

We don't get all those good Fords/Opels. They keep selling us the crap. And they expect us to buy American.

As for styling, there's ugly and there's unoffensive/bland. Camry/Corolla fall under the unoffensive. Many people actually think it looks good. I think mainly cuz it's unoffensive and doesn't shock them. Enthusiasts tend to want to be shocked some.

Then there's ugly like the Pontiac Aztek. Ford's styling is actually ok. It's really just GM that puts out really ugly cars on occasion. But, when they cheap out on parts or whatever, they make it REALLY obvious which does make the interior look ugly.

Course, the new Camry I think can safely be called a bit ugly.

 

[Kirby]

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, Ford and GM (Opel) are profitable in Europe. I wonder if this is because they don't have the stigma of being unreliable cars because they were built better over there in Europe.

Correct, they are doing much better in Europe than in the US, go figure.

 

[Kirby]

... In fact the leather used in BMW's and most american cars come from the same farm, made in the same factory. .

Actually, all leather comes from not only the same factory and farm, it comes from the same cow - it's a really big, thick skinned cow and they peel it off just like bark on a cork tree.

Seriously, Eric, what were you smoking when you made that post!

 

[epj3]

Actually, all leather comes from not only the same factory and farm, it comes from the same cow - it's a really big, thick skinned cow and they peel it off just like bark on a cork tree.

Seriously, Eric, what were you smoking when you made that post!

What do you mean? The company who supplies the leather and builds the seats is the same between a bunch of manufacturers.

http://www.lear.com/index.jsp

I believe they even have a factory in PA - it was on PCN tours once. (or it was some other company, either way there is a company in PA who supplies interior parts.)

 

[jrt67ss350]

There's a Lear plant in the Greenville area that supplies seats and other interior parts to the BMW plant.

 

[Kirby]

Here's how it works:
- Hundreds of farmers sell cows and bulls to meat processing facilties
- Meat processing facilities sell the good meat to food suppliers, sell the organ, viscera and other crap meat (i.e. "mechanically deboned", hehe, I can go into detail if you like) to pet food suppliers; hides go to tanneries; fats, oils, and stomach enzymes and go to renderers.
- the tanneries produce leather under contract to auto, furniture and clothing manufacturers, and either sew seat covers themselves OR sell the finished leather in bulk to other cutting and sewing facilities. The hides come from hundreds of farms, the leather from dozens of suppliers.

TRIVIA: Where did the name of the Cadillac "FLEETWOOD" come from?


ANSWER: Fleetwood, PA just up the road from Reading. Fleetwood was the home of Fleetwood Body Works, and provided body and seat assemblies to GM.

"The tannery building was once part of the Fleetwood Metal Body Works, which opened in 1909 and manufactured custom automobile bodies for Cadillac, Duesenberg, Packard, Rolls Royce, and Mercedes. The body works closed in 1931 when General Motors, the plant's owner, moved operations to Detroit."

The tannery continued and was a big employer and landmark in this area until it closed a few years ago, and burned...

 

[epj3]

Here's how it works:
- Hundreds of farmers sell cows and bulls to meat processing facilties
- Meat processing facilities sell the good meat to food suppliers, sell the organ, viscera and other crap meat (i.e. "mechanically deboned", hehe, I can go into detail if you like) to pet food suppliers; hides go to tanneries; fats, oils, and stomach enzymes and go to renderers.
- the tanneries produce leather under contract to auto, furniture and clothing manufacturers, and either sew seat covers themselves OR sell the finished leather in bulk to other cutting and sewing facilities. The hides come from hundreds of farms, the leather from dozens of suppliers.

TRIVIA: Where did the name of the Cadillac "FLEETWOOD" come from?


ANSWER: Fleetwood, PA just up the road from Reading. Fleetwood was the home of Fleetwood Body Works, and provided body and seat assemblies to GM.

"The tannery building was once part of the Fleetwood Metal Body Works, which opened in 1909 and manufactured custom automobile bodies for Cadillac, Duesenberg, Packard, Rolls Royce, and Mercedes. The body works closed in 1931 when General Motors, the plant's owner, moved operations to Detroit."

The tannery continued and was a big employer and landmark in this area until it closed a few years ago, and burned...

Kirby, having lived in Lancaster county the great majority of my life, I understand how farm supply works. My point was that the leather very well COULD have came from the same farm, hell could have an arm rest that was the left over material from a pontiac minivan's back seat.

 

[94silverbullet]

In my humble opininion, nobody ever says "that a nice malibu you have" or "what a great looking sunfire that is" or how about "thats a cool focus". I drive a 318i, pretty much the bottom of the top of the line, if you know that I mean, and people say "thats a nice Bimmer" all the time. GM and Ford just don't "have it". Chrysler "kinda gets it" It might not be fair, but its just the way it is....

I get "nice ride " all the time with my Mustang...

 

[Abdoman]

There are different grades of leather, even from the same manufacturer. Just because it comes from the same supplier doesn't mean that the same leather is used in a BMW and a GM. The 3 series leather is a different grade than the 5 series and so on.

I agree that GM and Ford do not create desirable cars. Just look at all the car magazines. Very rarely do US manufactures rate at the top. Nissan is a great example of what a car company should do to save money and create top cars. One excellent platform and one excellent engine and base several cars on it. GM has too many divisions selling against one another and too many different cars.

 

[epj3]

There are different grades of leather, even from the same manufacturer. Just because it comes from the same supplier doesn't mean that the same leather is used in a BMW and a GM. The 3 series leather is a different grade than the 5 series and so on.

I agree that GM and Ford do not create desirable cars. Just look at all the car magazines. Very rarely do US manufactures rate at the top. Nissan is a great example of what a car company should do to save money and create top cars. One excellent platform and one excellent engine and base several cars on it. GM has too many divisions selling against one another and too many different cars.

You're right - in fact the leather in some of the trucks my dad test drove was much better than the new 3 series leather. I don't think the number of divisions is the problem, it's the fact that every one of their cars is very expensive, and doesn't have a lot to offer except LOOKING kind of expensive.