Are American Cars Really That Bad?

[Kirby]

Take a good look at vehicle reliability data and the answer may surprise you.
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney staff writer
January 25, 2006: 1:40 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - With all the bad news coming out of Detroit these days, many have a disarmingly simple suggestion: Ford and General Motors should simply build better cars.

"I read that Ford plans to cut about 30 000 jobs in North America alone," one CNNMoney.com reader wrote. "How about building better cars instead?'


How about that?

A perception of poor quality certainly isn't the only reason Ford and GM cars can have trouble in today's market. But it's a factor.

We looked at J.D. Power and Associates Long-term Dependability Surveys to get a sense of where American cars rank in terms of reliability and how much they've improved. That survey measures the number of problems vehicle owners have after 3 years of ownership.

We also checked with Consumer Reports to see what they thought about GM and Ford's performance in terms of reliability.

The answer is that, overall, GM and Ford cars are not that bad at all. In fact, in terms of reliability at least, they've become pretty good.


FULL ARTICLE

 

[epj3]

Kirby, it's NOT a question of being good/bad, reliable/unreliable. Most of it is because they are extremely undesireable cars, and bad purchases. I think this is like the millionth 'quality/reliability' report posted here. It doesn't matter - also that is how many problems they have that owners report. I can tell you our van had a million rattles and squeaks, but my mom wasn't going to bother taking it in for that and living without a car for two days. People who buy american cars either put up with the problems, or simply expect them and don't think anything is out of the ordinary. A person who buys a BMW or mercedes will take it to the dealer for EVERY little thing. I can think of a few posts on this forum alone where people took their car to the dealer for a simple little rattle inside their car and had it fixed. I know I would have it fixed, too.

 

[deutsch100]

I totally agree with Eric. American cars have gotten a lot better in terms of reliability. BUT, besides from a few models that I find appealing (Mustang, Vette, 300C), most American cars are just boring, have the worst plastic interiors imagineable and have horrific resale/trade in values.

Mercedes keeps scoring really bad in reliability and customer satisfaction, but I read a lot of the complaints have to do with excessive brake dust, or leather soiling too fast, etc...

American car buyers are not willing to drop their cars off at the dealership (and of course will never be given a loaner) to fix a squeak or a rattle, or have some warning light looked at if the car is "running fine".

It basically comes down to when you spend $45,000-$100,000 for a car, you just expect it to be "perfect".

 

[hosagod]

They might have good reliability these days, but when it comes down to it...The japanese are making far more appealing, reliable, and better-looking cars. Frankly, most of the American models I see are disgustingly hideous...and I'm sure most Americans think the same way. For that price segment, $10 - $30, the japanese alternatives are far more handsome. I think that it is the designs that detract most people from buying American vehicles.

You look at the good-looking cars like the Corvette, 300C, and Mustang and you clearly see that they sell far better than Avalanches, Taurus', Aztecs, Cavaliers, etc...

IMO, reliability is a factor but not the final determinant. These companies are suffering simply because their cars are ugly.

Also, the reason why BMW and Mercedes owners go get even little squeaks and rattles checked is simply because they want their moneys worth. A $60,000 product should behave like a $60,000 product, with a $20,000 product, who would care?

 

[epj3]

They might have good reliability these days, but when it comes down to it...The japanese are making far more appealing, reliable, and better-looking cars. Frankly, most of the American models I see are disgustingly hideous...and I'm sure most Americans think the same way. For that price segment, $10 - $30, the japanese alternatives are far more handsome. I think that it is the designs that detract most people from buying American vehicles.

You look at the good-looking cars like the Corvette, 300C, and Mustang and you clearly see that they sell far better than Avalanches, Taurus', Aztecs, Cavaliers, etc...

IMO, reliability is a factor but not the final determinant. These companies are suffering simply because their cars are ugly.

Also, the reason why BMW and Mercedes owners go get even little squeaks and rattles checked is simply because they want their moneys worth. A $60,000 product should behave like a $60,000 product, with a $20,000 product, who would care?

Exactly. Even if they are talking about actual problems (like non-starting and stuff like that), I would expect it out of german cars and even japanese cars. The american companies haven't made any innovations in their engines other than building materials. Of course they won't actually break down, the engine was designed 30+ years ago and had all those years of refinement.

That's also why the M30 is known as one of is not the most reliable motor BMW has ever built. Simple design, and by the it hit my car the only like part with the older versions is the block.

 

[codex57]

Chrysler is the perfect example of what an American company needs to do: produce desirable cars. The 300C is actually not all that luxurious. It's vastly improved over the older stuff. But, there's still an awful lot of plain plastic in there. The higher models are ok, but the base models have a really plastic interior. However, considering what you get, including teh looks, and I have NO problems recommending it. It's simply a good car. So what if Chrysler had to use a bunch of Mercedes parts to do it. They did.

I don't understand why the American car companies don't buy from the same suppliers as the imports. Suck up that pride. Japanese are excellent at looking at a good idea, and then imitating it and trying to improve. The Americans are clearly not the world leaders anymore. They should stop trying to do everything new. Pick something (like design) to make their own, and then borrow the less important stuff like interior materials.

 

[epj3]

Chrysler is the perfect example of what an American company needs to do: produce desirable cars. The 300C is actually not all that luxurious. It's vastly improved over the older stuff. But, there's still an awful lot of plain plastic in there. The higher models are ok, but the base models have a really plastic interior. However, considering what you get, including teh looks, and I have NO problems recommending it. It's simply a good car. So what if Chrysler had to use a bunch of Mercedes parts to do it. They did.

I don't understand why the American car companies don't buy from the same suppliers as the imports. Suck up that pride. Japanese are excellent at looking at a good idea, and then imitating it and trying to improve. The Americans are clearly not the world leaders anymore. They should stop trying to do everything new. Pick something (like design) to make their own, and then borrow the less important stuff like interior materials.

What do you mean? A lot of parts in american cars are built in the same factories as foreign cars. IE interiors in GM are built by the same company as toyota's, bmw's, mercedes, etc.

 

[Murray BMF]

In my humble opininion, nobody ever says "that a nice malibu you have" or "what a great looking sunfire that is" or how about "thats a cool focus". I drive a 318i, pretty much the bottom of the top of the line, if you know that I mean, and people say "thats a nice Bimmer" all the time. GM and Ford just don't "have it". Chrysler "kinda gets it" It might not be fair, but its just the way it is....

 

[hosagod]

Your Aztec is hot!!! [fake]



Agreeing with Codex, my mother just went to vacation and the car that she rented out was a base model 300C. She said it was really cheaply made from the inside, and alot of options were missing, options that should be standard even on a base model.

Still, the 300C is very attractive from the outside and that's why I think it sells...now if only GM and Ford could do the same. The new Ford Fusion is actually pretty good looking in my opinion so there is hope out there!

 

[Q-tuned]

The only American car I would really want is the Chrysler Firepower, it is SOO sexy.
Though is it a rip-off of an Aston Martin...maybe?

 

[hosagod]

That's hot! :O

 

[codex57]

What do you mean? A lot of parts in american cars are built in the same factories as foreign cars. IE interiors in GM are built by the same company as toyota's, bmw's, mercedes, etc.

If they're made in the same factory, they don't use the same materials. I really don't care who makes it. It's the end result that matters. Design plays a part. However, what I'm talking about (and what bugs) is the cheaper quality plastics or whatever that a lot of American cars have that the imports don't. That crap can't cost that much difference.

I guess Hosagod understands my 300 example. I was in the base 300 on the road and while it road nicely and was roomy and crap, the interior materials felt cheap and bare. The fully loaded one that was in the showroom was much nicer on the inside. The problem is the dramatic difference in interiors btw the base model and fully loaded one. Let's face it, most people are gonna get the cheaper one. There shouldn't be THAT much of a difference btw the models. The LE model Camry isn't dramatically crappier on the inside than the XLE. It is that way btw the base 300 and the more luxurious model.

 

[epj3]

If they're made in the same factory, they don't use the same materials. I really don't care who makes it. It's the end result that matters. Design plays a part. However, what I'm talking about (and what bugs) is the cheaper quality plastics or whatever that a lot of American cars have that the imports don't. That crap can't cost that much difference.

I guess Hosagod understands my 300 example. I was in the base 300 on the road and while it road nicely and was roomy and crap, the interior materials felt cheap and bare. The fully loaded one that was in the showroom was much nicer on the inside. The problem is the dramatic difference in interiors btw the base model and fully loaded one. Let's face it, most people are gonna get the cheaper one. There shouldn't be THAT much of a difference btw the models. The LE model Camry isn't dramatically crappier on the inside than the XLE. It is that way btw the base 300 and the more luxurious model.

They do use the same material, especially leather. In fact the leather used in BMW's and most american cars come from the same farm, made in the same factory. Materials are typically the same, but that doesn't mean anything - it's the ultimate design of the parts that does.

It's not cost of materials thats the problem anyways, its the unions.

 

[bmw046series]

Thank You Eric!

The unions are the cause, they have screwed every business that has had them; UAW, Plumbers, Contractors, Masons, Phone Companies, Nursing, etc. etc. etc., why do you think Wal-Mart is fighting so hard against unions. Autoworkers should not make $60 an hour, if they did a great job the company would become profitable and companies institue profit sharing programs.

The 300 has been a huge hit for Chrysler, it may be cheap but it sure sells, and the last time I checked it hasn't had very many problems.

Ok you all know how badly I hate Japanese cars but this situation makes me even more ticked off, do we want an Auto Industry like Britain (BTW Britain doesn't have an auto industry anymore).

 

[hosagod]

haha...

 

[Pete K]

These days American cars really are just as good as Japanese cars. But that wasn't the case 10, 20, 30 years ago. Had Detroit changed their ways back then, they'de fine now. Instead the companies and workers sat back raking in profits while the unions just got more and more complacent. I'm not against a blue-collar Joe making a decent living but is it fair for an auto worker to make $60000 a year while a teacher or social worker with a Masters degree makes $30000?

Unfortunately there is a PERCEPTION of better quality with Jap cars. So many Americans wouldn't even CONSIDER an American car because their 1980 X car fell apart at 100000 miles (I should know).

It used to be the case that there were Ford families or GM families or Chrysler families. So when a guy's Chevy wore out, he went down to the local Chevy dealer and picked up a new Chevy. There's a lot less brand loyalty now. And just like most other businesses, competition is fierce for each customer.

The 300C is a great car for the money. The way I look at it, you give up some finesse or interior quality so that you've got a tire-burning Hemi under the hood. If you want everything to be top quality you can pay twice as much for an M5.

 

[PhatBimmer]

I have high mileage on my truck still runs great and I never maintened it until recently (other than oil changes). Just replaced coil pack, distributor cap and rotor and intake head gasket and thats it. 2yrs ago I changed my fuel pump but they go bad anyways.

I say I got a good deal on it.

 

[hosagod]

Well my car (BMW) has had way more problems over the past 2 years than our Lexus, the Lexus has had NONE, no joke...

Still, I would reconsider BMW just because their cars are so damn beautiful, and Lexus just has a bunch of rip-off models that are uninspiring and boring.

Point is, I think that even if American cars had subpar reliability, they would still sell like hotcakes if they would just make their cars a little more appealing to the eyes.

People want beauty, BEAUTY! Noone wants to look ugly, why then would they want their cars to look ugly?

 

[epj3]

These days American cars really are just as good as Japanese cars. But that wasn't the case 10, 20, 30 years ago. Had Detroit changed their ways back then, they'de fine now. Instead the companies and workers sat back raking in profits while the unions just got more and more complacent. I'm not against a blue-collar Joe making a decent living but is it fair for an auto worker to make $60000 a year while a teacher or social worker with a Masters degree makes $30000?

Unfortunately there is a PERCEPTION of better quality with Jap cars. So many Americans wouldn't even CONSIDER an American car because their 1980 X car fell apart at 100000 miles (I should know).

It used to be the case that there were Ford families or GM families or Chrysler families. So when a guy's Chevy wore out, he went down to the local Chevy dealer and picked up a new Chevy. There's a lot less brand loyalty now. And just like most other businesses, competition is fierce for each customer.

The 300C is a great car for the money. The way I look at it, you give up some finesse or interior quality so that you've got a tire-burning Hemi under the hood. If you want everything to be top quality you can pay twice as much for an M5.

But the reliability isn't the problem. I totally disagree that quality is the same - I think the overall quality of american cars, though has improved drastically the past 5 years - is still low. A cheap japanese car gives you a nicer overall car than a cheap american car. The problem with the american car companies is their products are NOT competitive. There is always a competitive product that is simply a better choice.

By the way, BMW has been using hemispherical heads for a very long time, if not forever. Nothing special other than its a much better head than GM's which is basically a block of steel with holes drilled in it for valves and spark plugs.

 

[codex57]

They do use the same material, especially leather. In fact the leather used in BMW's and most american cars come from the same farm, made in the same factory. Materials are typically the same, but that doesn't mean anything - it's the ultimate design of the parts that does.

It's not cost of materials thats the problem anyways, its the unions.

Errr, any other materials that are the same? Yes, design is a chunk of what I have problems with. Large swathes of empty blank plastic is not attractive. However, leather is something I found crappy in both American cars and BMW cars. Actually, I like the leather in most American cars better than the leather in BMW cars (other than the M cars). BMW leather is REALLY crappy IMO.