Why does no-one believe in air filters?

[mikev]

Why is it that alot of you guys will put your heart and sole into upgrading chips/suspension/exhaust etc but when anyone mentions increasing power or throttle response from a free(er) flowing air filter its always disbelief??? it has been proven on the dyno that an air filter can give 1-2hp increase in power or even more. so why do people hit a brick wall of flaming and general shitty comments when its mentioned???

 

[coyotefreek]

Im for them, cheep, simple. As for the brick wall you talk about, I have only noticed it with people that dont do many upgrades, not the ones that do. I never see BMWs or any car for that matter that will be suped up and still have a stock air filter.

 

[wileycoyote]

I'm all for improved air flow. But I'm skeptical of many of air filter claims. Having some knowledge of science, I suspect that even the most efficient particle filter is only 5 to 10 percent more effecient than stock, which would translate into less than 1 HP on most cars. I believe a full air intake system (cold air from front, improved filter, straight path, etc.) coupled with free flow exhaust could be worth about 5 to 10 HP.

I believe these parts don't have much room for improvement (with the exception of the cold air intake), whereas the programming of the fuel / ignition system does. The fuel / ignition is de-tuned to meet emmissions regulations (also why most cars have warm air intakes). Although fiddling with engine computer is much more difficult because of the complexity, it can be improved the most.

 

[KC Ron Carter]

Torgue over HP

Remember that the performance issue is not perception but feel.

The best modification will be felt, in the seat Dyno.

Higher flow rate may allow a minor, 1 to 7 HP increase but only at at max RPM.

A differential ratio, spark advance curve, or even some exhaust changes, affect the torque range and make more torque at a lower RPM.

I have even seen V-8 iron that felt better to drive after adding TB or Carburetor spacer, when the top HP was actually lowered.

Later,

 

[mikev]

Re: Torgue over HP

Remember that the performance issue is not perception but feel.

The best modification will be felt, in the seat Dyno.

Higher flow rate may allow a minor, 1 to 7 HP increase but only at at max RPM.

A differential ratio, spark advance curve, or even some exhaust changes, affect the torque range and make more torque at a lower RPM.

I have even seen V-8 iron that felt better to drive after adding TB or Carburetor spacer, when the top HP was actually lowered.

Later,

VERY true.

 

[jonnyz16]

I have always supported high flow filters . I have one coming in the mail soon . To me its personal preference vs. performance gain. I just feel better and its an easy install..

 

[Average Jae]

there is the debate of down sides of freer flowing air filters, mainly: letting more dirt in. after reading some intellegent arguments against freer flowing airfilters, i'd rather give up the extra hp or two potential in favor of keeping more particles from entering the oil, which leads to more crap in my engine which prolly isn't worth the extra hp or two..

but that's just my decision. if you are down w/ cheap hp mod, then why not, right? but as they say, if it's too good to be true.. it just maybe?

cold air intake sounds tempting tho ^^

 

[mikev]

there is the debate of down sides of freer flowing air filters, mainly: letting more dirt in. after reading some intellegent arguments against freer flowing airfilters, i'd rather give up the extra hp or two potential in favor of keeping more particles from entering the oil, which leads to more crap in my engine which prolly isn't worth the extra hp or two..

but that's just my decision. if you are down w/ cheap hp mod, then why not, right? but as they say, if it's too good to be true.. it just maybe?

cold air intake sounds tempting tho ^^

if you buy a cheap one then it will give cheap results, but increasing the surface area by adding ridges gives higher air flow and no more dirt in!

 

[PuShAkOv]

Do you guys think that most of the performance benefits we feel is all in our minds? It is hard to feel a several HP difference... but knowing that you have something better installed puts you in the state of mind of having a faster car... Agree?

 

[wileycoyote]

Yep, + or - 10 HP would be pretty hard to feel. It's all in our minds. Personally, after good detail job (wax, shampoo, etc.) and a full tank of gas, my car feels faster. Like my dad always says, "A clean car rund better".

 

[coyotefreek]

Do you guys think that most of the performance benefits we feel is all in our minds? It is hard to feel a several HP difference... but knowing that you have something better installed puts you in the state of mind of having a faster car... Agree?

100%

While adding a filter to my car wont give it the bigger engine I want, It is peace of mind that I actualy have it on there. Luckaly for my car there is a good, cheep, cold air intake kit so I will see better horsepower gain than from just the filter.

 

[PuShAkOv]

If this whole "in the mind thing" is true... what does is say about ricers?

 

[wileycoyote]

Well, it would explain the outlandish wings, tupperware kits, and stickers. Makes them feel fast.

 

[Ben]

arent the wings supposed to keep the back end on the ground to increase traction on a rear wheel drive vehicle?? what the hell will it do on a FWD car?? NOTHING, besides lifting the front off the ground more for less traction......... am i correct??

 

[PuShAkOv]

Yeah.. but the car will be faster since velocity vectors will be in TWO directions. Usually the car moves forward... but since the front will be lifted it will be going forward and upwards... and with some math you will see that displacement will be higher, thus car's acceleration fealt is higher.

 

[frolf]

If this whole "in the mind thing" is true... what does is say about ricers?

thats why they are so confident because their cars are loud as shit. and by confidence i mean arrogance. but they are quickly shot down when out of the gates they dont' go anywhere because they gave every last bit of torque they had to make sure their car was as loud as possible.

 

[coyotefreek]

ok push your scaring me, your almost sounding scientific. Not your normal self.

 

[PuShAkOv]

ok push your scaring me, your almost sounding scientific. Not your normal self.

Dude.. I am a 4.0 student.

-- this is pavel.

 

[mikev]

Yeah.. but the car will be faster since velocity vectors will be in TWO directions. Usually the car moves forward... but since the front will be lifted it will be going forward and upwards... and with some math you will see that displacement will be higher, thus car's acceleration fealt is higher.

not really as the speed at which aerodynamic aids take a strong enough effect to lift the front, even a little, is in the top end of there vehicals capabilities. so the car can't use it to accelerate. at the point the giant rear wing takes effect (assuming it hasn't been blown off) the car is already usually over revving (they are only little 1.6 rice boys) so there is not much extra to be gained. thats not considering the problem of drag and the extra power needed to overcome the higher frictional force produced. all of that would actually make the car go slower surely???

 

[CosmosBlack]

Well...in my opinion, they who put on wings and other accessories to their "ricers" have no idea or knowledge about aerodynamics, drag coefficient or physics to begin with. They just have poor tastes and they actually believe it looks cooool...They're doing it just to disguise their inadequate machines to look like one of the big boys.