The reason that manual transmissions may go away...

[Kirby]

CAFE - Corporate Average Fuel Economy.

I was reading an article this weekend (I think it was in Roundel) that discussed the lack of an initial 6 speed manual transmission offered in the M5. It said the reason is CAFE.

As you may know, the US Government requires all car manufacturers to meet a minimum MPG across their fleet. So if you make gas guzzlers like the M5, 760, Viper, you need cars like the 318, 1 Series, Neon to boost the CAFE miles per gallon.

In BMW's case, they can tweak and boost the MPG with Steptronic and SMG by playing with software. But the manual transmission is a "drain" on meeting CAFE.

The article said that this will probably be the ultimate demise of ALL manual transmissions, replaced by SMG technology.

Now, I know that in general, mpg specs are usually HIGHER for manual transmission cars?????

 

[Tom]

Nice article Kirby, wonder if this would influence the possibility of having the manual M5 for the US market.

 

[Big Daddy]

Now, I know that in general, mpg specs are usually HIGHER for manual transmission cars????

I believed this as well, however during a search of new transportation ideas for a future purchase I am seeing MPG ratings on the automatics that are the same or higher than manuals. I would have never believed this, but your right it is the programs that are being written for the autos!

 

[deutsch100]

Higher MPG was always true in manual transmissions, when automatic transmissions were a big "mess". As automatic transmissions (and of late SMG, CVT) have been "perfected" higher and more evenly consistent MPG are achieved. Auto manufactuers can, as was stated, control and manipulate MPG much better with software and electronics than someone's left foot on a clutch. My 2 cents.

 

[mjbst111]

it all depends on driving style. If you drive exactly like the "computer tweaked" automatic in the manual, you will get better gas milage in the manual.

but since the manual cannot be controlled, the auto gets better mpg ratings....

 

[codex57]

Yeah, the new autos are getting really good. Mercedes has a regular auto, yet it even gets better performance numbers on it than the manual version (see the new SLK).

 

[MrElussive]

I don't think this article is true at all. What about Lamborghini, they only have two cars sporting a 500hp V10 and a 580hp V12? I think the company just has to pay heavy fines or taxes or something if they do not meet the CAFE requirement.

Manual transmissions usually get better gas mileage than automatics, but autos are getting better and better. They are faster than manuals noadays in most cases (except for full throttle acceleration) and they usually deliver better gas mileage. The only real downside to automatics is highway driving. Because of the fluid-based operation of an automatic transmission, the engine is actually applying more power to the transmission than it really needs to, to keep the car moving at 60mph, for example. What car companies are starting to do now, is to have the torque converter lock up at highway speeds so that there is no more "lossed power."

I think we all know the whole "manual is faster" excuse does not apply for new cars anymore, which is why even though many car companies are pushing manual for their new vehicles, more and more people are still buying auto. If you want manual, it is not practical, it is not really faster, and it does not really get better gas mileage....you really just do it for the driving experience. Personally, I know that I will probably be driving manual for as long as it is around and end up replacing that with an F1-type gearbox.

 

[Chesty Bonds]

Damn I hope this article is wide-of-the-mark.

Elussive, what you're saying is 100% correct IMO.

 

[Kirby]

I don't think this article is true at all. What about Lamborghini, they only have two cars sporting a 500hp V10 and a 580hp V12? I think the company just has to pay heavy fines or taxes or something if they do not meet the CAFE requirement.

I believe they do have to pay heavy fines if they don't meet it. But I'm pretty sure it is a per car fine. So if BMW or Dodge don't meet it, the fine can be HUGE just due to the sheer volume of cars they sell.

Lambo, Ferrari, etc. sell so few cars, they can just add the value of the fine into the selling price of the car.

 

[epj3]

Good i'm glad to know the mostly bullshit environmental movement is getting rid of the good ways to drive.

 

[MrElussive]

Kirby, I see what you mean. Is this article speculating on what is going to happen, or what is happening now? Because if you checkout most new cars with manual, automatic and/or F1 style transmissions, the manual mostly matches or exceeds its F1 or automatic version of the same vehicle. In few cases, the manual gets about 1mpg less in city, highway, or both. To me it seems far from enough to justify ceasing use of the manual transmission.

But even if they do eventually get rid of manual transmission, I'd say 99% of people in the US will simply not give a crap.

 

[Big Daddy]

Manual transmissions usually get better gas mileage than automatics, but autos are getting better and better. They are faster than manuals noadays in most cases (except for full throttle acceleration) and they usually deliver better gas mileage.

You seem to contradict yourself here? In your first sentance you say manuals usually get better mpg than auto...than in the second sentance you say "they usually deliver better gas milage" referring to autos. Than in your third paragraph you say "If you want manual, it is not practical, it is not really faster, and it does not really get better gas mileage..." Sorry but I am confused? I checked the MPG ratings of several cars (BMW's mostly) and the auto are as good or better than manuals.

GM, Chrysler and others have been using lock up torque converters since the late 80's, this is nothing new. With some of the newer 4 and 5 speed auto w/lock up the engine works less that the manual to maintain speed.

 

[foomonkey525i]

I think what he meant is that manuals have traditionally gotten better mileage, but now autos are getting better.

 

[epj3]

Eh there will always be manuals from some company.

 

[Bmw 325i 7803]

Eh there will always be manuals from some company.

Yes, in 10-20 years Hyundia, Kia, and Daewoo will offer wonderful manual transmissions in their cars, and I presume it will be a major selling point.

I can picture the ad with OPTIONAL MANUAL TRANSMISSION as a major marketing feature...

 

[Big Daddy]

I think what he meant is that manuals have traditionally gotten better mileage, but now autos are getting better.

I would agree with that statement!

 

[Average Jae]

i think more than anything that hampered the automatic's performance was the technology. mainly the fact that they were stuck with 4 speed auto for so long. but now that they are coming out with 6 and in some cases 7 speed autos, manufacs can better set the gear ratios, to get both better milage and faster accel.

ah technology.. the double edged sword..

 

[Chesty Bonds]

ah technology.. the double edged sword..

You've got that right for sure.

 

[Nataku]

If you get comparable performance, it will be the cost of R&D of the MT that will eventually kill it off. Seems to be becoming a nitch market to have Manual Transmission as the Mini Cooper S. You need to have a baseline number of MT drivers to justify the cost of developing it. Hopefully if we keep on buying it BMW will continue selling it.

 

[aNoodle]

....
GM, Chrysler and others have been using lock up torque converters since the late 80's, this is nothing new. With some of the newer 4 and 5 speed auto w/lock up the engine works less that the manual to maintain speed.

I think you're right. The inefficiency in autos is not in 4th and 5th gear. It is when the torque converter is being used in higher gears.

I thought it wasn't so much the fleet standards, but just the power of the engines that push BMW to only offer SMG. ??

Does anyone think BMW will come out with a CVT like Audi?