Insurance

Big Daddy · Feb 9, 2005

I read on another board that an Allstate Insurnace Company customer found new language in his policy renewal or was notified of a change in policy. His policy now specifically reads that Allstate will not cover for accidents "...arising out of the participation in any prearranged, organized or spontaneous:
( a) racing contest;
( b) speed contest; or
( c) use of an auto at a track or course designed or used for racing or high
performance driving.
or in practice or preparation for any contest or use of this type."

Interesting, I checked my Liberty Mutual policy and found this language; "Any vehicle located inside a facility designed for racing, for the puropse of: (a) Competing in; or (b) Practicing or preparing for; any prearranged or organized racing or speed contest." I called my agent and I am covered for driving schools, however no racing or speed contest, auto cross included. Also notice that Allstates says "organized or spontaneous" meaning that if you race the next guy from the traffic light you could be denied insuranace!

Check your policy and read it!

MrElussive · Feb 9, 2005

Yeah, I was aware of this, this is a good tip for people who didn't know.

Heh, it's nice to know that as cars are becoming inreasingly more expensive to repair, our insurance companies are becoming increasingly worse when it comes to quality of service, despite what they say in their commercials.

///M SPEED · Feb 9, 2005

Great info Big D! I don't blame them really. There are too many people (usually, but not solely young people) who don't know the power of their vehicle and get into street racing accidents. A lot of times resulting in a person(s) death.

Racing is meant for the track. If one does decide to race their car on a track (driving schools not withstanding) I agree one should purchase a different policy for this purpose. I don't condone street racing as I don't oppose it either, but one should be responsible when driving on the public streets.

The main problem I see that could arise from this sort of policy language is the insurance’s interpretation of it. They could deny a claim on the grounds for racing when in fact the person(s) involved my not have been. There could be a fine line...

jrt67ss350 · Feb 9, 2005

MrElussive said:

That's not a big surprise - it's happening in the insurance industry as a whole. Health insurance is the same way: as medical procedures become more advanced and expensive, health insurance is covering less and less. Homeowner's insurance is becoming the same way, too. If you make too many smaller claims or even one large claim on your homeowner's insurance, the going trend for insurance companies is now to drop you, maybe even stick you on the "black list" so that you have trouble getting homeowner's insurance from any company.

Insurance in this country is really running into some major problems.

///M SPEED · Feb 9, 2005

MrElussive said:

True, but car companies are continually pushing the boundaries of power. They are making cars faster, quicker, and with better handling every year. This in itself helps bring out the little boy/girl racer in many. I believe the insurance companies are trying to curb street racing with their policy language, which in real terms should help in policy premium pricing. Although I very seriously doubt that the insurance company will/would let the money trickle down to the policyholder instead keeping it for a fat profit margin. I.E. policy price stays the same or rises, but they can deny coverage for either a perceived street race or an actual proven race. All in all it is usually the policyholder that gets screwed...

Big Daddy · Feb 9, 2005

///M SPEED said:

Bam! You nailed this one. I could not agree more. Consider street racing got so bad after "Fast & Furious" that many cities had to install signs like those around Southcenter Mall banning racing and spectators. I also agree that insurance companies will fail to pass on any savings.

///M SPEED · Feb 9, 2005

Where I live in Fairwood there is a road right behind me (Soos Creek Water District) that use to be pretty much deserted all times. It is long, has a long slope, but at the end it has a curve (there is plenty of room to slow down for the curve, which leads into a residential neighborhood) and is perfect for street racing.

About 3 years ago there was a street race setup there. There were many cars and almost all were young kids racing high performance cars. Well, one of these races ended in tragedy. A car with 4 kids was racing another and kept flying down the road. They didn't make the curve and nailed a tree killing 3 inside. The street now has huge speed bumps all the way down it. I see more and more stories like this every month.

Almost every time I drive the M I have some young kid trying/wanting to race me. I just ignore them. I am sure they post in the forums they are members of about how an M3 didn't want any, but I don't care. I do not street race. I do find times on an open highway or a mountain road (I use to go with my motorcycle all the time) where I will open it up, but not on a busy public street.

Big Daddy · Feb 9, 2005

I am with you on that. I have young ones and some old ones all the time pull up next to the roadster and gun the engine, or make quick abrupt forward movements. I ignore them and really get a charge out of it when two or three miles down the road they are sitting next to the curb with a nice police officer writting them a be safe reminder.

I have seen too much death and mangled people to engage in street racing. On the open highways or lonely deserted roads where in most cases your only going to hurt yourslef, go for it. Let me add to, if you get caught fess up and pay up. I see too much complaining about lousy cops when the writer freely admits speeding or racing.

No flames, no negative posts, just my thoughts.

///M SPEED · Feb 9, 2005

Big Daddy said:

Bingo! I agree Dan. I am not going to lie. I speed at times, but I don't do it recklessly. I have engaged my friend with a vert. M3, but only on a deserted open highway or an occasional lonely deserted road (there are many in Washington State). It is how, when, where, and how many are involved that is question. A lot of people now days will race anywhere and anytime. Doesn't matter the traffic situation, road conditions, etc...it just seems they have something to prove, need something to write about, or need to justify the money they spent on their car (just my observation/opinion).

I like driving fast like many people on this board. I just need to be smart about it. It is a shame today times the local governments need to post signs about banning racing and spectators. This should be common sense in those types of locals.

jrt67ss350 · Feb 9, 2005

Wow, Dan and Scott, I couldn't agree with you guys more. I am now 23, and my driving has matured greatly in the past 5 years. I used to go out with my buddies in high school (we all had souped up high performance cars) and raise some hell. Most of the time we were pretty careful about where we did that kind of stuff - we avoided raising hell in areas where non-involved traffic was concerned, but we still did some crazy stuff that I am now not proud of. I am now a much much more conscientious and careful driver. I've seen and known too many people get involved in really bad situations due to the kind of driving/race-everyone-in-sight behaviors you guys are describing. Just like you guys, I also like taking my bimmer out and letting her rip here and there, but I now put much more thought into where and when I do that.

I can definitely relate to the harassment by other people wanting to race you. When I was driving my Camaro daily, I could just not get away from that. Every time I had to stop at a red light, someone next to me would give me the pipes, or jerk their car forward suddenly, or squeal their tires on takeoff, or pace me and then gun it to try to get a rise out of me, or ride my bumper and then shoot around me like a bat out of hell, you name it. My car was like a magnet for people who felt they had something to prove. It gets old, especially when all you want to do is go to the grocery store.

It definitely takes some maturity to ignore that kind of behavior, especially when you are a kid with a really powerful car. I find myself shaking my head at people when I see that kind of stuff going on now - I guess that means I'm turning into a grouchy old man! [hihi]

Section_8 · Feb 9, 2005

This thread reads like a novel, 'When Boy Racer Meets Father Time'.

I'm subscribing to it too though. Getting old means getting wise, and realizing just what your actions may inadvertently cause. It's hard for kids to understand this, sometimes as you get old you 'forget' that you just didn't know CRAP when you were young, except whatever you wanted to do was right, no matter if it really wasn't! All of you guys have admitted to sillyness in some form or fashion when you were the same age as kids today doing their 'sillyness'. Right?

The car industry continues to crank out faster, higher performance vehicles. The insurance industry continues to tighten their stranglehold on their customers. Speed limits continue to be the same or higher than they used to be.. Doesn't sound like the older mature folks are really doing anything about it though... Right?

We can't be hypocrites and get tougher on these kids if we can't decide as 'adults' to stop giving them all these speed toys and tougher rules to set themselves up for trouble, or even death. (Feeding off the frenzy?) Something needs to change though and it certainly won't be 'youth'. They don't know any better! (remember?)

Ahh I need some sleep, take this post with 2 grains of salt instead of 1.. [:)]

Big Daddy · Feb 10, 2005

Good posts from everyone. When I was 16 I drove old Chevy V8's. I wish that I would have been able to attend a school such as BMW CCA's Street Survival.

Street Survival

gizzy · Feb 10, 2005

Big Daddy said:

Doesn't it make you wish you were ISP again and have an unmarked sports car? I have only seen this once, but I loved when a guy was swerving between lanes just inches in front of cars (Mustang driver), but made the mistake of doing it in front of an unmarked camaro [ohcrap]

. Makes me wounder what his excuse was that he gave to the officer.

I don't like unmarked cars much myself, but they do serve their purpose [:D]

Big Daddy · Feb 10, 2005

Haha gizzy that is too true and funny. About 90% of the time I drove an unmarked, but I was city my brother is the ISP, regardless I too have seen a few dopes make big errors right in front of an unmarked and in some cases a marked police car.

///M SPEED · Feb 10, 2005

I have a good friend in the WSP that use to drive 1 of only 2 Trans Am State Police cars in the whole state. They were very very fast. I use to love to go over his house and he would tell me all kinds of stories. He hated motorcycles and always tried to scare me from them with pictures and stories of motorcycle accidents. It never deterred me though. He also was one of the few Staters that was on the fatality accident squad (or what ever they called it). I would hate to be pulled over by him if I didn't know him and had any type of attitude. He was/is a no bullshit officer. He could/would make it hard on you.... He really was a nice guy though...

epj3 · Feb 10, 2005

Saying that you need to go to drivers schools to not suck at driving at a young age is stupid. I'm always a careful driver and have never had anything happen due to a bad decision. My accident was 150% the other guys fault, and he was twice my age.

I know experience comes with age, but experience isn't the only factor when it comes to driving ability.

///M SPEED · Feb 10, 2005

epj3 said:

I don't see anywhere on this thread where it is stated that "all" young drives "need" to go to driving school. I has been mentioned that is good for young drivers to attend one of the sessions (IMO all drivers would benefit) to help become safe drivers. This thread is not directed solely at one age group.

jrt67ss350 · Feb 10, 2005

I would have loved to attend a driving school, if not for anything else than for the experience. There was just nothing around my area that I knew of, and the classes at the BMW Performance Center (about 10 minutes away from where I grew up) were just WAY too expensive.

Big Daddy · Feb 10, 2005

///M SPEED said:

I could not find where anybody said that either, and considering I have only been in one accident (not at fault) in 51 years, and worked in careers where driving daily was a big part of the job, I'd day I was a pretty good driver, yet I would love to have had the chance to attend a Street Survival School or any other driving school when I was a teenager and I believe it would have made me an even better driver! Eric are you feeling gulity? [joke]

Section_8 · Feb 10, 2005

epj3 said:

Ahh, I woulda said the same thing at your age dude, that was my point (and no slander to young folks believe me, I'm sticking up for ya!). But really, being a careful driver is not the same as being an 'experienced' driver. When I say experienced, I don't mean X number of years behind the wheel (but this helps I think to a degree), but actual real world instructional driving, a driving school like Dan mentioned, maybe some defensive school driving, etc etc.

It's not that you can't drive (obviously you can!), but may not know 'other' things to look out for that you just haven't experienced yet, or things to do in the event of something hairy, that a driving school/class could prepare you for better.

Daz all I'm saying. [:)]

I wish I had gone to some driving school classes when I was younger, might have been able to avoid 1 or 2 of the fender benders I had when I moved to the ATL (Again the point I'm making.). If you were say from a small town, under 20, and that's all the driving you've ever done (albeit maybe years of it).. 8 lanes moving 80 bumper to bumper is going to be a little different and hairy from your normal driving experiences.

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