http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4070556.stm I like how they bought saab and are now brining them down with them!
PS honda > All
PS honda > All
Good job GM!!
- Thread starter epj3
- Start date
Tom said:
Saab has been hurting for some time, but it is sad to see that many jobs go. I do wish BMW would follow in their footsteps and give us employee discounts as well. I sure do want the new M5 in my garage. ![[:D]](/images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin [:D]")
Look at pontiac's new grand prix gtx or whatever, tell me they aren't copying off of someone else *wink
It's like they saw the M's with the side grille's, and played pin-the-grille-on-the-fender and it ended up at some random place.
![[:(]](/images/smilies/frown.png "Frown [:(]")
epj3 said:
I would get a nice 330Ci if we got bmw employee discounts!!
Look at pontiac's new grand prix gtx or whatever, tell me they aren't copying off of someone else *wink
It's like they saw the M's with the side grille's, and played pin-the-grille-on-the-fender and it ended up at some random place.
Look at pontiac's new grand prix gtx or whatever, tell me they aren't copying off of someone else *wink
It's like they saw the M's with the side grille's, and played pin-the-grille-on-the-fender and it ended up at some random place.
That wasn't the point - Many many many cars have side grille's (jags, maserati, bmw, etc.) - the point is the side "grille" is at an increidbly stupid looking spot, and was obviously done as a marketing gimmick that ends up, again, just looking stupid and out of place.
The point is that BMW only puts side grilles on their performance cars, and pontiac randomly decided to put it only on their "performance sedan" which really is a highway floating piece of shit.
The point is that BMW only puts side grilles on their performance cars, and pontiac randomly decided to put it only on their "performance sedan" which really is a highway floating piece of shit.
Have you driven a GTX? I didn't think so.
Yes, I am a aware that it is a FWD V8, which inherently is less than desirable, but that doesn't mean it's a "highway floating piece of shit." My fiancee's GTP certainly doesn't float - you feel every damn bump in the road in that car, and I think that significantly larger and heavier car could outhandle my E30 if it had good tires on it. I don't expect the GTX to be worse than the previous generation GTP.
Tell me that the new M5 gills aren't a marketing gimmick? I've read that they aren't even functional vents - so, they obviously are purely for show and "marketing." The Z3 gills also weren't functional. At least the GTX gills are supposed to be functional vents.
You also need to remember that the GTX is going to cost a mere fraction of what the new M5 will cost.
You don't like the gills on the GTX? Fine - don't buy one. But, they certainly aren't copying BMW by putting second-gen TransAm-style fender vents on the car.
Yes, I am a aware that it is a FWD V8, which inherently is less than desirable, but that doesn't mean it's a "highway floating piece of shit." My fiancee's GTP certainly doesn't float - you feel every damn bump in the road in that car, and I think that significantly larger and heavier car could outhandle my E30 if it had good tires on it. I don't expect the GTX to be worse than the previous generation GTP.
Tell me that the new M5 gills aren't a marketing gimmick? I've read that they aren't even functional vents - so, they obviously are purely for show and "marketing." The Z3 gills also weren't functional. At least the GTX gills are supposed to be functional vents.
You also need to remember that the GTX is going to cost a mere fraction of what the new M5 will cost.
You don't like the gills on the GTX? Fine - don't buy one. But, they certainly aren't copying BMW by putting second-gen TransAm-style fender vents on the car.
Back on the topic -
On one hand, I'm very upset to see that so many jobs will be lost in this country due to GM's stupidity. However, I'm also kind of eager to see how the coming changes in the company will impact how GM builds cars and designs their products. If this situation is played correctly, this could end up being just what GM needs to turn themselves around. If the situation is played poorly, this could be the beginning of the end of the company.
On one hand, I'm very upset to see that so many jobs will be lost in this country due to GM's stupidity. However, I'm also kind of eager to see how the coming changes in the company will impact how GM builds cars and designs their products. If this situation is played correctly, this could end up being just what GM needs to turn themselves around. If the situation is played poorly, this could be the beginning of the end of the company.
This GM situation is very sticky and I am anxious to see what happens. GM and the UAW union will have to really make drastic changes in their structures to save this company.
When GM is dealing with a $1500 legacy cost on each vehicle produced vs Toyota's sub-$200 legacy cost per vehicle, you can see why they are at such a disadvantage. If GM wants to remain viable, and the UAW wants their membership to have jobs, absolutely drastic measures must be taken now.
How much better could a car be designed if they had an extra $1300 per unit sold to put back into Research and Development?
When GM is dealing with a $1500 legacy cost on each vehicle produced vs Toyota's sub-$200 legacy cost per vehicle, you can see why they are at such a disadvantage. If GM wants to remain viable, and the UAW wants their membership to have jobs, absolutely drastic measures must be taken now.
How much better could a car be designed if they had an extra $1300 per unit sold to put back into Research and Development?
Those bloody unions ought to take a jump to themselves and wake up to the real world. Having GM go broke, which is highly likely, is in absolutely nobody's best interests.
Unions should bugger off - there's no place for their militant action these days. Luckily for us, the Union movement in Australia has just about had its member chopped off![[hihi]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_hihi.gif "Hi Hi [hihi]")
Unions should bugger off - there's no place for their militant action these days. Luckily for us, the Union movement in Australia has just about had its member chopped off
Chesty Bonds said:
Those bloody unions ought to take a jump to themselves and wake up to the real world. Having GM go broke, which is highly likely, is in absolutely nobody's best interests.
Unions should bugger off - there's no place for their militant action these days. Luckily for us, the Union movement in Australia has just about had its member chopped off
Unions should bugger off - there's no place for their militant action these days. Luckily for us, the Union movement in Australia has just about had its member chopped off
I remember the caterpillar factory in York (PA) - which was quite a big factory - went on strike like 8 or 9 years ago (Can't remember exactly when), but they were on strike for like 3 or 4 years. Ended up shutting the plant down, and it was for something stupid if I remember correctly. Lost tons of jobs too from it. I guess not having a job is better than a little extra money for doing super easy work.
My post was exactly the point I was quoting you as saying. This is mearly an opinion; your opinion. Justin summed it up pretty well so there is no need expand.
Every car manufacturer has gimmicks to sell cars. Remember, not everyone shares your view. My point was to point out Pontiac was not copying BMW or any other car company with the side gills on the new Grand Prix GTX as you stated. The side gills on that car are almost exactly (area and shape) like the old Trans-Am gills (they look nothing like any BMW gills).
Your quote of my quote made no sense. My post had nothing to do with the aesthetics, whether it was/wasn't a marketing gimmick, and or how many other car manufactures have used the side gills on their autos.
Just wanted to sum it up no hard feelings…
Every car manufacturer has gimmicks to sell cars. Remember, not everyone shares your view. My point was to point out Pontiac was not copying BMW or any other car company with the side gills on the new Grand Prix GTX as you stated. The side gills on that car are almost exactly (area and shape) like the old Trans-Am gills (they look nothing like any BMW gills).
Your quote of my quote made no sense. My post had nothing to do with the aesthetics, whether it was/wasn't a marketing gimmick, and or how many other car manufactures have used the side gills on their autos.
Just wanted to sum it up no hard feelings…
besides having idiots making decisions at the top, union issues is one of the biggest headache for GM, and other American auto manufacs.
foreign car companies that run factories in America have no unions in their factories, thus they can make the car way cheaper than an American counterpart.
not to blame all GM's woe's on the union, since it is combination of things. however, as long as the union members get theirs, they don't give two bits about the company. i don't think the term symbiosis works for them. it's quite a sad situation actually..
foreign car companies that run factories in America have no unions in their factories, thus they can make the car way cheaper than an American counterpart.
not to blame all GM's woe's on the union, since it is combination of things. however, as long as the union members get theirs, they don't give two bits about the company. i don't think the term symbiosis works for them. it's quite a sad situation actually..
Not to sound anti-union, because they do some good, but these are the same people who are yelling the loudest at the unemployment when/if the company folds (stating in general not ness. about GM).
Unions have their upsides, but they need to realize when a company truly is in trouble. In today’s market US car manufactures and their business structure are in a world of hurt. They just cannot compete....
Unions have their upsides, but they need to realize when a company truly is in trouble. In today’s market US car manufactures and their business structure are in a world of hurt. They just cannot compete....
Excellent point, in my early days as a police officer making barely over minimum wage we joined a union. They helped us get on par with wages and benefits than moved to the polotical arena and did nothing for us. They used members money to promote their leaders polotical views. We finally dumped them.
Just like the Caterpillar plant in York, Reading HAD a huge Dana Corp. factory that made truck frames for GM, Ford, Chrylser. One of the area's biggest employers. The Union was asked for 10% to 15% concessions because costs were 35% higher than any other plant. The union said "NO". Dana closed the plant.
They went from $25/hour + bennies to unemployment and $6/hour fast food jobs, because they refused to work for $21/hour.
They went from $25/hour + bennies to unemployment and $6/hour fast food jobs, because they refused to work for $21/hour.