DaimlerChrysler to abandon JD Powers quality goals??

[Kirby]

Now they blame their quality problems on the American Consumers tastes? Truth or cop-out???

BARCELONA (Reuters) - DaimlerChrysler is debating whether to abandon its goal to place its Mercedes-Benz brand first in the prestigious J.D. Power and Associates car quality survey, Mercedes chief Eckhard Cordes said on Friday. "We are carefully analysing whether this is a reasonable goal or not, and then we will answer the question once we have finished our analysis," he told reporters on the sidelines of an industry conference here.

The premium Mercedes-Benz brand has been pulling out all the stops to address quality problems that have dented its elegant image and raised doubts about its avowed goal of topping J.D. Power U.S. survey of initial quality in new cars by 2006.

"In order to become (number) one in J.D. Power, it is not only about hardware quality. It also has to do with the American taste, how they want cars," Cordes had earlier told the Automotive News conference.

A car's ratings may be marked down, for instance, if buyers feel they have too many functional buttons on the steering wheel, he said.

"One has to carefully analyze whether with a global car it is really advisable to strive for being J.D. Power number one," he added.

"If we come to the conclusion that the clear answer is 'yes', we want to be number one. But you see that we are still debating this, or whether we are better off with number two or number 3. That is still open."

Should the company decide a second-place ranking is acceptable, that does not mean that cars sold under the Mercedes brand are worse than those sold under the top-ranked brand, he added.

Cordes did not specify which J.D. Power survey he was referring to. In the J.D. Power 2004 Initial Quality Survey of auto nameplates, Mercedes-Benz ranked No. 10 with 106 problems per 100 vehicles. Toyota's premium Lexus brand ranked No. 1 with 87 problems.

 

[bmw046series]

Has DaimlerChrysler ever built a good quality car?

 

[Steve176]

Sounds like they feel they can't compete. If they abandon their goal the quality of the cars will not improve. Tough to ask for a premium price on car that will possibly be consider ordinary.

 

[epj3]

Has DaimlerChrysler ever built a good quality car?

Uh, read the article. They are talking about putting the MERCEDES BRAND in the first spot in the ratings. It really has nothing to do with the quality of dodge, chrysler, etc. with the exception of money.

He's simply stating that to get to the #1 spot, they will have to change a few things in the cars that americans don't like but I'm assuming others DO like... Kind of like if bmw said "we would get rid of idrive to be #1 but we want to keep it and change our goals to not be #1"

 

[aNoodle]

Seems like a reasonable question to ask. What exactly is included in the 106 problems...are they suggesting too many buttons on the steering wheel (not broken buttons) counts as a problem?

 

[codex57]

#1 spot! They need to work on just getting back into respectability before trying to take the top spot.

Seems like a reasonable question to ask. What exactly is included in the 106 problems...are they suggesting too many buttons on the steering wheel (not broken buttons) counts as a problem?

I believe it's a measure of ergonomics. Too many buttons makes things hard to find. It may sound stupid, but it can be a real problem if you're trying to hit a button that isn't used much. You take your eyes off the road for too long.

Plus, you need to have logical placement of the buttons. For example, I was stuck in the E-Class for a few minutes as we tried to find the unlock button. Some moron stuck it on the dash next to the button that opens up the CD changer. Who the hell would think to look there? I guess putting it on the door would have made it too easy for people.

 

[MrElussive]

For BMW and Mercedes to continue to lead the automotive industry, they often have to end up doing things "the BMW way" or "the Mercedes way" and unfortunately it is not always the best. Based on codex's statement, I can agree with him on the central locking button. My parents are used to the location of the unlock button and it is great once you get used to it because the driver and passenger both have easy access to it. But if you are getting into the car for the first time, you will easily be looking for hte unlock button for way longer than you would like (but I think the driver and front passenger can just exit the vehicle without unlocking the doors, but I'll have to double-check that).

 

[codex57]

Yeah, once you get used to it, it's no big deal. I think the driver and passenger can exit without unlocking, but we had a family friend in teh back who we were dropping off. She couldn't get out for a little while. It was kinda embarassing. Imagine if you had just bought a new Merc, decided to drop a client off and they couldn't get out and you couldn't figure out how to let them off. That could be bad.

At least with the BMW, the button is separated from all the rest so you notice it simply cuz it sticks out like a sore thumb. On our E, the unlock button is surrounded by other similar buttons so it blended in.

 

[wood_e]

One also has to ask if the "problems" are really problems at all. I bet somneone with a simple, inexpensive car wouldn't report things being broken as often as someone who spends 50k on a car.

 

[I love my 5 Series]

Mercedes Benz cars and SUV's have quite a few initial quality defects. Things like power windows, Navigation systems, stereos, power seats, keyless entry systems, power door closers, climate control, trunk closers, etc. Add to that the squeaks, rattles and road noise (ML's) and you have a car that doesn't get a high rating. So, how does a defect ridden car like Hyundai get a high rating? I think some of this also has to do with expectations (I stress the word some). If you get your Hyundai to start every day, radio turns on and get you to work, you're thrilled. If your luxury car has a rattle or the climate control doesn't keep your car at 72, you're upset and you'll slam them in the survey.

 

[I love my 5 Series]

But keep in mind that Lexus buyers are very picky, but somehow they rate much higher than MBZ. Why is that? Lexus cars typically don't break and have initial problems like MBZ. We have an ES 300 with 208K on it and it's been a wonderful car (maintenance/problem wise). Not the most exciting car, but a nice quiet semi-luxury car. Our E300 has only 116K on it and #2 cylinder is low on compression, it has been leaking oil from who knows where (they've tried to fix it numerous times), the driver's side power seat button only partially works, the transmission shifts hard, we've put a new muffler on it, the power steering leaks and the sunroof whines on the freeway (when closed). Oh yeah, it also eats tires on the front, but the front end is aligned to specs. Our 540i on the other hand has had a radiator replaced, sensors for water level and brake linings keep going off. Keyless entry buttons are soft and gooey. But it still drives well and has done a much better job than the E300 and has cost a lot less. Our XJ-6 Sovereign was an electronic nightmare. And don't ask us about the Mazda Millenia we dumped (JUNK)!

We'll stick to BMW and Lexus for sedans and Porsche for our fun car.

 

[aNoodle]

One also has to ask if the "problems" are really problems at all. I bet somneone with a simple, inexpensive car wouldn't report things being broken as often as someone who spends 50k on a car.

Yeah, that's what I can't figure out from the article. Does JD Powers include as problems things that aren't broken...like too many buttons? If that's the case, then I don't think MB is being an apologist to suggest this survey may not be the one they choose to be the top of.

I guess I'm confused what counts as a problem. If it's broken stuff, then I'd say they need to quit whining, suck it up and make their cars better. It's not fair to say they add more features so they're at a competitive disadvantage (they also charge people four times as much over a Saturn). But if the survey has some sort of a subjective aspect to it (like too many buttons, not broken buttons) then they may be fair to say they disagree with the survey.

 

[codex57]

Yeah, that's what I can't figure out from the article. Does JD Powers include as problems things that aren't broken...like too many buttons? If that's the case, then I don't think MB is being an apologist to suggest this survey may not be the one they choose to be the top of.

Too many buttons is a legitimate gripe in my opinion. When I compare the E-class versus the Civic, the Civic's controls are simpler simply cuz you don't have as many options. I find the Civic simply easier to use. Is it it's fault cuz it can't do as much? No. The key if finding a balance btw offering lots of cool features and making things too confusing. On the Civic, changing the A/C involves sliding nobs and buttons that stick out clearly. On the E-Class, I've got dials and multiple flush buttons. It's just much harder cuz I've got to switch btw very different control things that often are hard to find by touch alone.

By comparison, the Lexus and Toyota's I've been in (and Honda's and Acuras for that matter) strike what I consider to be a good balance btw offering lots of features and making them easy to use. If they have different types of controls, they make them large and easy to find by touch alone.

Besides, having different expectations is no excuse. First of all, I paid a hell of a more for my luxury car than I would have for a Hyundai. Both get me from Point A to Point B. I'm paying a ton extra for something. You better damn well believe my expectations are going to be higher on the little stuff like buttons, quality of materials, etc. What else am I paying tens of thousands more for? Finally, Mercedes' argument that JD Power's survey questions are impossible to do for a global car is absolute crap. It's a crap excuse (not reason, but a pathetic excuse) because Lexus (and to a lesser extent, Acura) exists. The Japanese know how to pay attention to the little details that won't appear on a testdrive, but will show up during the course of ownership. Those two spend a ton of hours working on how a seat fits, trying to make it comfortable to a wide variety of body types. Mercedes does a pretty good job on the seat cushions themselves, but they made one glaring mistake in forgetting about the seat base that connects the cushions to the car. You can't have the base stick out farther than the cushion. It pushes against the calves and gets uncomfortable. Moronic mistake.

I believe their CEO mentioned that they need to get their quality up and that maybe they threw in too much newfangled tech. He should get Mercedes back to that. Stop trying to throw in the kitchen sink and concentrate on getting the stuff they have right. Get the basics down pat. It's fine to throw in new tech, but limit the amount if you can't get them right. That keyless thing is nice and fancy, but I don't hear reports of Lexus (which also has the system) cars freezing up completely if you hit the buttons manually while inside the car. Mercedes has such an advantage cuz of how beautiful their cars are right now along with it's image. They can't give away that advantage by screwing up the other stuff.

rant over.